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It’s Sir Keir

Another point. All the messages coming from Hartlepool are that Labour might lose it. If you want to look at the reasons why it might be better to look at previous MP's including Mandelson and the last sex pest as it ever was Starmer.
 
The reality that backers of Starmer in the liberal right Guardian and Independent won't publish. Believe me these journals will very shortly be backing Yvette Cooper or another Blairite to replace Starmer.


BIG G
 

BIG G
 
Would you let Sir Keir in your pub?


It's a pity we don't get more of the discussion that happened earlier. If SKS is right and he's a Covid-19 denier I wouldn't want to go into his pub. You'd think SKSs team would have sussed out visits beforehand and avoided the place. It's not as if politicians and Labour in particular haven't been caught out in the past!
 
Would you let Sir Keir in your pub?


It's a pity we don't get more of the discussion that happened earlier. If SKS is right and he's a Covid-19 denier I wouldn't want to go into his pub. You'd think SKSs team would have sussed out visits beforehand and avoided the place. It's not as if politicians and Labour in particular haven't been caught out in the past!
The landlord is having a breakdown I would suggest.
 
Would you let Sir Keir in your pub?


It's a pity we don't get more of the discussion that happened earlier. If SKS is right and he's a Covid-19 denier I wouldn't want to go into his pub. You'd think SKSs team would have sussed out visits beforehand and avoided the place. It's not as if politicians and Labour in particular haven't been caught out in the past!
I am the biggest critic of Starmers on here for lack of opposition or agreeing with the Government not only on aspects of Covid policy but other very important item's of Tory policy with massive implications
which were not opposed or were supported. Oh yes and a Stalinist purge of Party members.

The BBC reporting you quote @Jack and the item about it on BBC 6.00 News with no context is the kind of lazy journalism I have come to expect from them.

Starmer and his team had pre-arranged the visit to the pub with the prize idiot landlord’s business partner Tim Perry, who runs the pub with Humphris . I can only assume that Perry perhaps mentioned to his partner that Starmer, film crews etc would be in the pub today. This was a bizarre stunt.

He is entitled to his opinions that mask wearing is unnecessary, the lockdowns have not save lives and his boozer should never have had to shut. Though I assume is business partner perhaps new this.

BIG G
 
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It's a pity Sir Keir wouldn't show some balls by challenging the government on their ineptitude of all fronts.
He's the leader of HM opposition.
It's his job.
He could have at least joined the six other leaders by signing up.
Maybe he has something to hide/protect.
 
Sir Keir "taking full responsibility" by sacking someone else. Absolute parody act

 
Not that I'll shed any tears for Angela Raynor.
 
Sir Keir "taking full responsibility" by sacking someone else. Absolute parody act


BIG G
 
Believing in something matters. No policy? Reap what you sow.
 
That wee Blairite Shadow Minister for toads and grovelling apologists Ian Murray offers his wisdom today insisted "Angela Rayner has not been sacked", because she's been offered a different role, but the damage to Labour was already done. Oh really O'Reilly.

BIG G
 
Believe it was Angela who said 'I'd gladly stab Corbyn in the front' no sympathy from me.
 
That wee Blairite Shadow Minister for toads and grovelling apologists Ian Murray offers his wisdom today insisted "Angela Rayner has not been sacked", because she's been offered a different role, but the damage to Labour was already done. Oh really O'Reilly.

BIG G
Little hearts t**t yesterday saying Scotland split 50/50 on independence and also in last weeks election. So he was putting labour's votes in the same pile as the Tories. Even if true, to say this after the debacle of better together is amazing. Always reminds me of Gilbert from get fresh too. Horrible little gutter snipe
 
Believe it was Angela who said 'I'd gladly stab Corbyn in the front' no sympathy from me.
It was actually Jess Philips another one who got a Shadow Ministerial Front Bench position from Starmer. However, she was only articulating what all the right wing Labour Mps felt, give her a break!

BIG G
 
Believe it was Angela who said 'I'd gladly stab Corbyn in the front' no sympathy from me.
No, it was the odious publicity junkie Jess Phillips that said that

EDIT - as I now notice Gordon has told you!
 

BIG G
 
Watch out for Blairites Hilary Benn and Yvette Cooper and others.

BIG G
 
Watch out for Blairites Hilary Benn and Yvette Cooper and others.

BIG G
Yvette a blairite?
 
Here we go G - with Bristol looking fucked a song about all the fractions of the Labour Party that Sir K is failing ...

 
Yvette a blairite?
You bet your sweet bippy Cooper is.


BIG G
 
Here we go G - with Bristol looking fucked .....
Marvin Rees has been re-elected as the Mayor of Bristol.

BIG G
 
Marvin Rees has been re-elected as the Mayor of Bristol.

BIG G

Was looking at them - the parachuted in Labour candidates - being beaten by the Greens at Bishopton and Ashley Down.
 
Was looking at them - the parachuted in Labour candidates - being beaten by the Greens at Bishopton and Ashley Down.


...and more importantly, wanted to post that fantastic tune!
 
Was looking at them - the parachuted in Labour candidates - being beaten by the Greens at Bishopton and Ashley Down.

Ach they done well in the end there, got as many council seats as the Greens... but as you say held on to the mayor, only looks one direction of travel there though eh?

"A tremendous result for the Green party in Bristol, where they more than doubled their number of seats on the city council – and tied with Labour. The parties both won 24 seats. Labour was down from 33 and the Greens up from 11 while the Conservatives remained on 14."

BTW - Im aware that you are as big a fan of Sir K as I am !
 
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I feel like the Labour Party is asking itself the wrong question, fighting the wrong war. Blairites v left, centre v socialists, both insisting that if the party purges the other wing it’ll suddenly become electable.

I don’t think either can win a general election, currently. Even if one faction is triumphant it’ll find it still can’t get into power.
 
I feel like the Labour Party is asking itself the wrong question, fighting the wrong war. Blairites v left, centre v socialists, both insisting that if the party purges the other wing it’ll suddenly become electable.

I don’t think either can win a general election, currently. Even if one faction is triumphant it’ll find it still can’t get into power.

This!
 
Did the left and right in Labour always so despise each other? It's a constant internal battle between the socialists and social democrats. My understanding is that throughout history and indeed in government the social democrats have kind of held the upper hand. However, they could form a cabinet of political differences yet debate the issues and arrive at a compromise? It seems that leaders like Atlee, Wilson & Callaghan were comfortable with this. And subsequently those with differing opinions such as Tony Benn and Dennis Healey could still respect and like each other.

Now I think they'd rather win their internal differences than win power and make a positive difference to those they supposedly represent.

It's. Over.
 
Did the left and right in Labour always so despise each other? It's a constant internal battle between the socialists and social democrats. My understanding is that throughout history and indeed in government the social democrats have kind of held the upper hand. However, they could form a cabinet of political differences yet debate the issues and arrive at a compromise? It seems that leaders like Atlee, Wilson & Callaghan were comfortable with this. And subsequently those with differing opinions such as Tony Benn and Dennis Healey could still respect and like each other.

Now I think they'd rather win their internal differences than win power and make a positive difference to those they supposedly represent.

It's. Over.
Nothing wrong with disagreements in a government. It keeps everyone on their toes.
Unlike Johnsons tribe.
Cabinet filled with yes men, and anyone who dares to have a differing view gets dumped.
Not good.
 
Nothing wrong with disagreements in a government. It keeps everyone on their toes.
Unlike Johnsons tribe.
Cabinet filled with yes men, and anyone who dares to have a differing view gets dumped.
Not good.

Can't help thinking of the Spitting Image sketch, with Thatcher dressed in a man's suit and her Cabinet all out for dinner; waiter takes the order from Thatcher........

"How Do You Like Your Steak Sir?"

" I Like It Raw."

" What About The Vegetables?"

"They will just have the same"
 
Nothing wrong with disagreements in a government. It keeps everyone on their toes.
Unlike Johnsons tribe.
Cabinet filled with yes men, and anyone who dares to have a differing view gets dumped.
Not good.

Absolutely. Strong cabinets gave good governance. It's now so pathetic leaders decide everything. Shadow ministers can't even give an interview unless cleared by the leaders office!
 
You bet your sweet bippy Cooper is.


BIG G

She and her husband loathed him.
 
She and her husband loathed him.
The new Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer only loathes immigrants, the poor, trade unions and Scots @Smurf. Splendid choice.


BIG G
 
The new Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer only loathes immigrants, the poor, trade unions and Scots @Smurf. Splendid choice.


BIG G
She makes Starmer look like a personality.
 
Absolutely. Strong cabinets gave good governance. It's now so pathetic leaders decide everything. Shadow ministers can't even give an interview unless cleared by the leaders office!
That form of government has been eroded so much that it's unrecognisable. Cabinet used to literally run the country and debate policy with 'Downing Street' carrying a tiny headcount - famously somebody said "the PM's office has fewer staff than that of a medium-sized German town".

Now the country is run out of Downing Street with hundreds of people, many employed in managing the comms and media representation. There were some downsides to the cabinet system - chiefly it tended to be reactive and slow - but it at least ensured that a range of voices were heard (sometimes a narrow one, but a range nonetheless). That's gone now.
 
The new Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer only loathes immigrants, the poor, trade unions and Scots @Smurf. Splendid choice.


BIG G

I shall just have a coffee and let this sink in ...

1620722934631.png
 
The new Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer only loathes immigrants, the poor, trade unions and Scots @Smurf. Splendid choice.


BIG G
Hang on G..... this cant be right.... we are better together... just neeed to empty out the Tories, or something..
 
I shall just have a coffee and let this sink in ...

View attachment 4906
Should we have no control on immigration?
 
I shall just have a coffee and let this sink in ...

View attachment 4906
Wanting controls on immigration has absolutely SFA to do with being anti immigrant, racist or any of the other liberal buzz words that are used when people have a different opinion. Many people of legitimate immigrant families want controls on immigrants.
I personally think anybody arriving from france in a dinghy or the back of a lorry should be sent back and told to apply properly. It's not as if they're trying to escape a war ravaged country.
Anybody, whether they're from europe ,africa Asia or wherever should have to meet certain criteria to settle here eg, escaping persecution or to work here.
 
Labour are in a horrible position just now where they need their rhetoric to appeal to THEM (right wing nut jobs) whilst their policies appeal to US (good guy lefties). Otherwise they'll simply never be elected so it really matters not a jot what their policies are.

So WE need to avoid falling into the trap of judging Labour on straplines such as clamping down on benefits cheats and controlling immigration and focus instead on the underlying policies. The linked Guardian article in the piece Big G posted is a good example. If you look beyond the headline it was actually an announcement of a Jobs Guarantee policy (A Good Thing) but framed as clamping down on benefit scroungers (which naturally gets OUR backs up). WE might not consider benefit scroungers to be an issue but THEY do and Labour won't win their votes without being seen to address their concerns. WE need to see past the rhetoric to the underlying policies and hope that THEY accept the rhetoric at face value. And we should, of course, have controls to prevent benefits abuse - it's just that it's a tiny issue in the grand scheme of things but THEY perceive it to be a biggie.

So we can either get worked up about mugs with messages about immigration or we can accept that sometimes they're going to have to say things we don't like in order to get elected. Controlled immigration isn't even a bad thing per se so there's plenty of scope for Labour to develop controlled immigration policies which welcome asylum seekers and economic migrants whilst ensuring we have the right mix of skills coming into the country and not just being 'anti-foreigner'.

This isn't a defence of the current leadership, just making the point that there needs to be a degree of pragmatism from all Labour supporters if they ever want to have a shot at actually implementing any policies ever again. If no common ground is found on how lefty the party should be then the only guarantee is that the country will move further and further to the right under successive Tory governments. Pick one from Blairism/Corbynism/Marxism/Whateverism and just get behind whichever one it is until there's at least a sniff of power. That's not to say that anyone should have to give up their principles completely, but surely trying to influence policy from within is better than simply tearing the party apart?

ps Not even sorry about the massive over generalisation and stereotyping, just using it to make a point. I don't really think there's a binary split of them and us.
 

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