It’s Sir Keir

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Smurf

Auld Enuff Tae Know Better This Radge
Yes but the majority of left minded people vote SNP in Scotland, picking up on your "Scotland very much didn't" comment.

I genuinely don't see much difference between the Scottish SNP Government 2007-2020 and New Labour 1997-2010. 13 years of welcome but timid reform. Both social democratic administrations.
 

1875

Admin
I genuinely don't see much difference between the Scottish SNP Government 2007-2020 and New Labour 1997-2010. 13 years of welcome but timid reform. Both social democratic administrations.

Somewhat, and its been disappointing how the SNP have tread water, especially under Nicola Sturgeon's leadership. However I don't remember New Labour abolishing tuition fees, providing free prescriptions, free school dinners, or providing universal access to sanitary products for women, and the SNP certainly didnae take us into an illegal war? ;))
 
Somewhat, and its been disappointing how the SNP have tread water, especially under Nicola Sturgeon's leadership. However I don't remember New Labour abolishing tuition fees, providing free prescriptions, free school dinners, or providing universal access to sanitary products for women, and the SNP certainly didnae take us into an illegal war? ;))

Let HenryLB remind you then.

"Lifted 600,000 kids and one million pensioners out of poverty

Employed 85,000 more nurses and cut NHS waiting times by over 80%

Began the largest ever investment in school facilities the country has seen and doubled funding for every pupil

Added 36,000 new teachers

Opened 2200 Sure Start centres
Introduced minimum wage while halving long-term unemployment

Increased child benefit, introduced child tax credits, and brought in Winter Fuel Payments

Enshrined workers rights to statutory holidays and paternity leave

Brought peace to NI

Doubled GiftAid and overseas aid

Devolved parliaments in Scotland and Wales

Scrapped Section 28 and introduced civil partnerships."



I support any reforms whìch help workers and their families whether in Scotland or the UK. I could also make a list as long as my arm of policies that I have criticised both the SNP Government and New Labour for.
These reforms took place in the context a relatively strong economy. The UK economy was in a dire condition prior to the pandemic and a hell of a lot worse now. Reformism without reforms and Austerity will be the order of the day.

BIG G
 
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1875

Admin
Let HenryLB remind you then.

Lifted 600,000 kids and one million pensioners out of poverty

Employed 85,000 more nurses and cut NHS waiting times by over 80%

Began the largest ever investment in school facilities the country has seen and doubled funding for every pupil

Added 36,000 new teachers

Opened 2200 Sure Start centres
Introduced minimum wage while halving long-term unemployment

Increased child benefit, introduced child tax credits, and brought in Winter Fuel Payments

Enshrined workers rights to statutory holidays and paternity leave

Brought peace to NI

Doubled GiftAid and overseas aid

Devolved parliaments in Scotland and Wales

Scrapped Section 28 and introduced civil partnerships.



These reforms took place in the context a relatively strong economy. The UK economy was in a dire condition prior to the pandemic and a hell of a lot worse now. Reformism without reforms and Austerity will be the order of the day.

BIG G

Excellent, pleased to read that. Looks like New Labour done a better job than some suggest?
 
Excellent, pleased to read that. Looks like New Labour done a better job than some suggest?

British Capitalism allowed New Labour reforms, at a cost of course, for more than a decade he acted as the mouthpiece of Big Business. These were his real masters, the rich and mighty. The City of London.

BIG G
 

1875

Admin
Let HenryLB remind you then.

"Lifted 600,000 kids and one million pensioners out of poverty

Employed 85,000 more nurses and cut NHS waiting times by over 80%

Began the largest ever investment in school facilities the country has seen and doubled funding for every pupil

Added 36,000 new teachers

Opened 2200 Sure Start centres
Introduced minimum wage while halving long-term unemployment

Increased child benefit, introduced child tax credits, and brought in Winter Fuel Payments

Enshrined workers rights to statutory holidays and paternity leave

Brought peace to NI

Doubled GiftAid and overseas aid

Devolved parliaments in Scotland and Wales

Scrapped Section 28 and introduced civil partnerships."



I support any reforms whìch help workers and their families whether in Scotland or the UK. I could also make a list as long as my arm of policies that I have criticised both the SNP Government and New Labour for.
These reforms took place in the context a relatively strong economy. The UK economy was in a dire condition prior to the pandemic and a hell of a lot worse now. Reformism without reforms and Austerity will be the order of the day.

BIG G

The line you edited in, I cannae mind any compliments from you regarding any of the reforms introduced by the SNP whìch help workers and their families in Scotland?

Anyhow much of what you say I agree, austerity will reign, vicious, murderous decisions will be made to protect the rich, the tories can only be replaced be the likes of Starmer and co and with a massive change in voting in England, we are cream crackered in the UK.

Where we don't agree is I think we would make a better job of it alone. Luckily a majority of Scots now agree, pity Nicola Sturgeon and her cohort cannae grasp that nettle.
 

HaarlemShuffler

Coffee Shop Radge
British Capitalism allowed New Labour reforms, at a cost of course, for more than a decade he acted as the mouthpiece of Big Business. These were his real masters, the rich and mighty. The City of London.

BIG G
What was British Capitalism's interest in 'allowing' the New Labour reforms? Why trust any flavour of leftist thinking above the surety of any conservative policy?
 
What was British Capitalism's interest in 'allowing' the New Labour reforms? Why trust any flavour of leftist thinking above the surety of any conservative policy?

Blairism is not Leftist and never will be. It guarenteed after the discontent by workers of Thatchers brutal regime and it's imminent demise, a safe Second 11 for Big Business. He was lauded by the very same reactionary billionaire owned press, as Starmer has been recently, why you may ask?
Perhaps starting with The Guardian reporting at the time that, “Tony Blair helped Murdoch overcome an official investigation which was jeopardising one of his big investments...Blair, while Prime Minister, immediately ordered his top officials to help the tycoon.” Remember Blair having a splendid time on Murdoch's yacht and the gutter scabby Sun ,The Times, the Sunday Times and the News of the World (all owned by Murdoch's News International) exalting their readers to vote for Blair's Labour in1979. Jesus.

Not lifting a finger to reverse Thatchers anti Trade Union legislation. Music to Big Business.

Initiating privatisation within the NHS, music to the ears of Big Business again.

Initiating PFI, more music for Big Business,
PFI debt for the British taxpayer is more than £300bn for infrastructure projects, with a value of £54.7bn.This means hospitals will have paid £80 billion by 2050for infrastructure worth £13 billion.

Blair gutted the Labour Party of internal democracy, subordinated it to US imperialism and prostituted Labour to the City of London.

Documents that were released as part of the Chilcot Report . Showed Tony Blair's government had taken on this disgrace big time, to make sure British companies benefited from the potential riches involved in Iraq’s postwar reconstruction, and plaudits from Britain's armament industry. Fuck sake 500,000 civilian deaths worth it Tony?

How that fucker ever got free rein in the MSM along with, Campbell, Lord Mandelson who not unsurprisingly joined George Osborne on a yacht belonging to Russian tycoon Oleg Deripaska, as a guest of financier Nathaniel Rothschild. Both daily attacked Corbyn in the Tory free newspaper with a massive circulation in London,The Evening Standard edited by Osbourne and owned by Russian Oligarch
Alexander Lebedev. Whats with it with these right wing Labour apologists and yachts and billionaires .

If you want more amigo, as I have said the list of my criticisms is as long as my arm.

Most Nats on here could express their criticisms of anything Nat on the back of a postage stamp.
Several Nat pals on here over the years very much the minority have had the balls to critisise SNP/ Government policies/actions. I salute you. To the vast majority who have not . Grow a pair. My critisism of things I disagree with in the Labour Party has not been ephemeral but constructive and over 50 years of membership. Definately not to the liking of the Party establishment over the years.

For those Nat Hibee amigos I know , who do not have constructive criticism of your own Party, you do no justice to yourselves and will not further the Scottish Independence cause in a progressive direction in my opinion.


BIG G
 
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HenryLB

Donator
Yes but the majority of left minded people vote SNP in Scotland, picking up on your "Scotland very much didn't" comment.

They're not a left-wing party, though. Certainly not of the kind that Big G or his ilk would recognise as such, which was the benchmark I was using.
 

HenryLB

Donator
this of course is true, but there's a big difference between beliefs and behaviour and the reality is that there is a much bigger difference in terms of actual voting habits in elections than the social attitudes results would suggest

Depends where you slice the cake. There's a big difference between how people vote in Liverpool and Surrey, so I'm not sure how useful or accurate it is to tell me that 99% of English people are crazed Thatcherites.
 

Gareth

Well-Known Radge
Depends where you slice the cake. There's a big difference between how people vote in Liverpool and Surrey, so I'm not sure how useful or accurate it is to tell me that 99% of English people are crazed Thatcherites.
Jesus. Ok, where did I say anything about anyone being a Thatcherite, that's a ridiculous straw man. Secondly, it was you taking each nation as one singular entity and saying that there is no difference. And regardless of where cakes are sliced, England as one national entity consistently votes to the right os Scotland as one national entity despite similar social attitudes responses. Thats inarguable, which is probably why you introduced the scarecrow
 

HenryLB

Donator
Jesus. Ok, where did I say anything about anyone being a Thatcherite, that's a ridiculous straw man. Secondly, it was you taking each nation as one singular entity and saying that there is no difference. And regardless of where cakes are sliced, England as one national entity consistently votes to the right os Scotland as one national entity despite similar social attitudes responses. Thats inarguable, which is probably why you introduced the scarecrow

You haven't followed the conversation, clearly.
 

HenryLB

Donator
Oh I see, so your response to my post was about things other people have written.

Yes. Because my post that you responded to was dealing directly with that point. If you want to talk about things in the abstract we can of course do that but it's not completely barmy to assume you might be taking part in the discussion that's actually happening.
 

Gareth

Well-Known Radge
Yes. Because my post that you responded to was dealing directly with that point. If you want to talk about things in the abstract we can of course do that but it's not completely barmy to assume you might be taking part in the discussion that's actually happening.
I don't even understand what you're trying to say here. I came in at the point when you said that social attitudes suggest similarities in beliefs in both countries, and i pointed out that actual voting suggests that despite answering social attitudes questions similarly, when it comes to behaviour, e.g. voting, that there are clearly differences, at which point you started on about 90% Thatcherites. Nothing I said was abstract, in fact the opposite, it was based on things such as an election just a few months ago. What the above seems to suggest is that you simply think that everybody who argues that the polity in scotland is different from england in any way believes exactly the same thing, so you can answer any of my points in exactly the same way as anybody else who thinks there is a difference, regardless of what they say and why. So you are homogenising many separate arguments and debates, either because you believe 'we' all believe the same, or you can't be arsed with any nuance, or you're too blinkered to even see any nuance.
 

emerald green

Well-Known Radge
Would staus quo remainers feel better if the present incumbents in our Holyrood parish church council were pillioried left right & centre for their shortcomings on this board? (they should vent their ire at the shocking cost to the public purse of these councils in Edinburgh Cardiff and Belfast, which you all seem to accept as second nature).

There is far more shite going on in the English Nationilst run Houses of Parliament. I for one will be moaning and sniping from the sides against that shower of shite until I have no need to.

When the scandals from "wee nic" and co begin to get anywhere near the scandels I have seen from Tories, Labour (and Lib Dems) in England, Ill maybe vent a bit more closer to home.

Too many entrenched in their ideological mind battles, too much infighting posturing from labour. While they to and fro for the soul of their party, the fucking beat goes on, and on , and on , and on.

The majority of Independence voters want this shite show to stop. To have a control over ALL its affairs. To control her borders and her economy and her people. To attempt to leave behind the never ending shite show.

The vast vast majority of Independence voters are NOT nationailists in the sense of the NF / BNP (or watevs these fucktards call themselves) or any populist right wing parties springing up all over Europe. They are just people pig sick of forever being at the back of the queue, but at the front of the queue when it comes to social depravity.

Should we ever grow some balls and see our country stand free, I could see "wee nic" and her clan being in goverment for no more than 1 session. Scotland could then vote in the type of party and leaning she wants. If they end up not being for the people the electorate can vote the feckers out in a short period of time. Would love some of those entrenched in the 70 and 80s to project their ideas. Trying to fix something so fundamentally wrong means nothing really ever progresses.

Sniping wrongs and rights up here is just noise. The king is dead! Long live the King.


yawn.
 
Would staus quo remainers feel better if the present incumbents in our Holyrood parish church council were pillioried left right & centre for their shortcomings on this board? (they should vent their ire at the shocking cost to the public purse of these councils in Edinburgh Cardiff and Belfast, which you all seem to accept as second nature).

There is far more shite going on in the English Nationilst run Houses of Parliament. I for one will be moaning and sniping from the sides against that shower of shite until I have no need to.

When the scandals from "wee nic" and co begin to get anywhere near the scandels I have seen from Tories, Labour (and Lib Dems) in England, Ill maybe vent a bit more closer to home.

Too many entrenched in their ideological mind battles, too much infighting posturing from labour. While they to and fro for the soul of their party, the fucking beat goes on, and on , and on , and on.

The majority of Independence voters want this shite show to stop. To have a control over ALL its affairs. To control her borders and her economy and her people. To attempt to leave behind the never ending shite show.

The vast vast majority of Independence voters are NOT nationailists in the sense of the NF / BNP (or watevs these fucktards call themselves) or any populist right wing parties springing up all over Europe. They are just people pig sick of forever being at the back of the queue, but at the front of the queue when it comes to social depravity.

Should we ever grow some balls and see our country stand free, I could see "wee nic" and her clan being in goverment for no more than 1 session. Scotland could then vote in the type of party and leaning she wants. If they end up not being for the people the electorate can vote the feckers out in a short period of time. Would love some of those entrenched in the 70 and 80s to project their ideas. Trying to fix something so fundamentally wrong means nothing really ever progresses.

Sniping wrongs and rights up here is just noise. The king is dead! Long live the King.


yawn.

Social depravity you say. Has Sir Shrink been up to his public indecency tricks again. Please tell but no photos please.

BIG G
 

paigntonhibby

Well-Known Radge
Instead of constantly ripping Sturgeon, Starmer and Johnson tae bits it wid be quite refreshing tae here what Gareth and Big G think Corbyn , Karl Marx or the editor of www.canary. would have done differently, bearing in mind hindsight is a wonderful thing. I'm a socialist, I've got no time for blinkered marxists ideology or conservative right wing ideology. Sturgeon ,IMO has done as good a job as could be done under the circumstances, Starmer is starting tae look electable, much to the ire of Gareth and Gordon, and Johnston is our PM , thanks to Corbyn and his Marxist cabal.I'm with Emerald Green the SNP is not so much a political party as a means to an end, get independance and Scotland can vote in the party IT wants. In my experience , and I've been on this earth nearly 69 years, most folk want a left of centre govt. they're not interested in marxism or calling people comrade but as long as so called labour supporters keep slagging off what will hopefully be an electable Leader then we will be under the Tory jackboot for the foreseeable. Rant over.
 
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