It’s Sir Keir

jock3

Well-Known Radge
Time to learn from history everybody. When Margaret Thatcher was asked what her biggest achievement was, she replied 'New Labour'. That process continued with Tony Bliar and now Keir Starmer. Corbyn represented the chance of a new society, that was thrown away betrayed by the right wing in his own party.
 

greencol

Skivin cooncil Radge
I know its probably pie in the sky but I'd like to think we all have a common enemy in the Torys and that's who we all should be fighting, together. As long as the Labour Party is fighting itself that war is not going to be won.
But in Scotland they're not the common enemy.
From Labours perspective the common enemy here is the SNP.
Tory, Labour and Lib Dems are unionist parties, and collude regardless of their (supposed) differences.
 

greencol

Skivin cooncil Radge
Time to learn from history everybody. When Margaret Thatcher was asked what her biggest achievement was, she replied 'New Labour'. That process continued with Tony Bliar and now Keir Starmer. Corbyn represented the chance of a new society, that was thrown away betrayed by the right wing in his own party.
That was always going to be the case thanks to the 'success' of Blair.
Not a chance Labour was going to revert to the kind of socialism Big G.....and many more......is looking for.
 

Purple & Green

Radge McRadge
Admin
Thread starter
By the end of this parliament, only Tony Blair will have won a general election for labour in the last 50 years.

I put that down to England being more intrinsically right wing than Scotland.

Talking of Tony, I see he’s putting himself back in the news a lot these days.
 

Jack

Aulder Than The Internet This Radge
By the end of this parliament, only Tony Blair will have won a general election for labour in the last 50 years.

I put that down to England being more intrinsically right wing than Scotland.

Talking of Tony, I see he’s putting himself back in the news a lot these days.
Tony's just reduced his appearance fee, hard times and all that!
 

Greenmachine

Aulder Than The Internet This Radge
By the end of this parliament, only Tony Blair will have won a general election for labour in the last 50 years.

I put that down to England being more intrinsically right wing than Scotland.

Talking of Tony, I see he’s putting himself back in the news a lot these days.
Blair is the most successful Labour leader of all time. Three election wins in a row, and the reason he achieved that is because (a) he reassured people in the massive Tory areas of England (where every UK general election is won and lost), and (b) he was up against hopeless Tory leaders. England will never vote for a socialist party...never. Scotland to be honest is becoming that way as well. The SNP are the New Labour of Scotland, appealing mainly to what could be described mainly as "Middle Scotland", but they also have huge appeal now because (a) they have an excellent leader, (b) the opposition are hopeless...Carlaw is a decent leader but the Tories are still toxic in Scotland, and (c) IMO anyway, there is an unstoppable march to independence.
Starmer might do well down south in a similar way that Blair did, but his anti-Brexit stance will be well remembered by many down in England and Wales (Brexit was popular even in solid working class areas) who were desperate to see Britain leave the EU, hence the hopeless Johnson's landslide election win, so I think he has no chance of winning the next UK election. England in the past only voted a Labour Party into power when the Tories have totally fecked up affecting their own living standards, and the Labour leader is "acceptable" to them as Blair was.
 
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Hibee Kev

Well-Known Radge
The trouble is, down here in England, any suggestions of deals or “cosying up” with the SNP would play out very badly for labour and would do more harm than good for them IMO
 

greencol

Skivin cooncil Radge
The trouble is, down here in England, any suggestions of deals or “cosying up” with the SNP would play out very badly for labour and would do more harm than good for them IMO
You're probably correct with that.
Considering 99% of english people dont have a scooby about Scottish politics they'll do as they always do .
Listen to the BBC, read the Sun, read the Daily Mail and hang on Johnsons every word.
And we know the truth is a stranger to Boris.
 

Hibee Kev

Well-Known Radge
You're probably correct with that.
Considering 99% of english people dont have a scooby about Scottish politics they'll do as they always do .
Listen to the BBC, read the Sun, read the Daily Mail and hang on Johnsons every word.
And we know the truth is a stranger to Boris.

Yep. The Murdoch MSM would be full of stuff like “a vote for labour is letting Sturgeon into No.10” and probably much worse. Unless they were really clever about things and made sure any deal never got into the public domain which is probably impossible.
 

Smurf

Auld Enuff Tae Know Better This Radge
Time to learn from history everybody. When Margaret Thatcher was asked what her biggest achievement was, she replied 'New Labour'. That process continued with Tony Bliar and now Keir Starmer. Corbyn represented the chance of a new society, that was thrown away betrayed by the right wing in his own party.

Absolute nonsense. Jeremy Corbyn was never going to get a majority. He was incompetent. A hopeless leader. If the left had elected a charismatic proper leader then a populist left policy platform would have had a chance. I like Corbyn but he's no leader.
 

Smurf

Auld Enuff Tae Know Better This Radge
And this nonsense of the Murdoch press doing Labour leaders in.... It's nonsense. These 'newspapers' have no relevance. Nobody buys them let alone reads them. 10 years ago newspapers accounted for 25% of advertising spend in the UK. Today it's 2.5%. That tells a story.
 

jock3

Well-Known Radge
One of the biggest reasons Bliar was so successful, was he took the 'king's shilling' and had a love-in with Rupert Murdoch.
Corbyn had the full weight of the establishment against him but crucially was stabbed in the back by the right wing of his own party.
If you look at the figures, Labour had a decent share of the vote in 2017.
 
First thing Starmer who posed himself as the 'unity' candidate in the Leadership election, did was remove left wing MP's and bring in happless Blairites Lisa Nandy, Liz Kendall, Jess Philips and Ian Murray and others to his shadow cabinet. Couldnae make it up.


BIG G
 

jock3

Well-Known Radge
And don't forget, he also brought back Ed Miliband! Actually, we should be thankful it's not his brother David. I'd have like to see someone like Richard Burgon.
 
And don't forget, he also brought back Ed Miliband! Actually, we should be thankful it's not his brother David. I'd have like to see someone like Richard Burgon.

So would I have, but the Knight of the Realm booted him out. Richard openly supported Open Selection, meaning Labour Party members in Constituency Labour Parties would get to select their Labour Party Parliamentary candidates by regular open democratic selection, regardless of whether they were sitting MPs, including himself, or not. The selections would be by One Member One Vote. No more hiding place for jobs for life, careerists.

BIG G
 

Gareth

Well-Known Radge
Maybe tying these issues together, interesting piece in LRB by William Davies that suggests that the Tories should be concerned about their future, and questioning the idea that england would never vote left.

'In the 2016 referendum, 64 per cent of people over the age of 65 voted Leave, compared to 29 per cent of those under the age of 25. In the 2017 general election, 69 per cent of those over the age of 70 voted for the Conservative Party, compared to 21 per cent under the age of 25. The probability that an individual voted Conservative in that election increased by 9 per cent for each additional ten years. Boris Johnson was appointed Tory leader (and hence prime minister) in summer 2019 by Conservative Party members whose average age was 57. His subsequent election victory wasn’t due to any improvement in his party’s standing among the young, but because there was a drift of Labour voters (including young ones) towards smaller parties. Other than that, the electoral demographics were identical to those of 2017'.

and

'According to Ofcom, 58 per cent of people over the age of 65 get their news from a print newspaper, compared to just 20 per cent of those under the age of 25. Even when newspaper websites and apps are taken into account, the gap is still significant: 64 per cent to 35 per cent'.
 
Maybe tying these issues together, interesting piece in LRB by William Davies that suggests that the Tories should be concerned about their future, and questioning the idea that england would never vote left.

'In the 2016 referendum, 64 per cent of people over the age of 65 voted Leave, compared to 29 per cent of those under the age of 25. In the 2017 general election, 69 per cent of those over the age of 70 voted for the Conservative Party, compared to 21 per cent under the age of 25. The probability that an individual voted Conservative in that election increased by 9 per cent for each additional ten years. Boris Johnson was appointed Tory leader (and hence prime minister) in summer 2019 by Conservative Party members whose average age was 57. His subsequent election victory wasn’t due to any improvement in his party’s standing among the young, but because there was a drift of Labour voters (including young ones) towards smaller parties. Other than that, the electoral demographics were identical to those of 2017'.

and

'According to Ofcom, 58 per cent of people over the age of 65 get their news from a print newspaper, compared to just 20 per cent of those under the age of 25. Even when newspaper websites and apps are taken into account, the gap is still significant: 64 per cent to 35 per cent'.

Gareth during your years of research did you come across the eminent statistician Harvey Goldstein who passed away from COVID -19 at the age of 80?


BIG G
 

Gareth

Well-Known Radge
I didn’t realise he’d died big g. Yeh I’d read some if his stuff, unlike many statisticians he often explained things in a very calm and understandable way. On the antisemitism issue my colleague Greg philo has a book out about the media’s reporting which I think you’d find interesting called ‘bad news for labour’.
 

Smurf

Auld Enuff Tae Know Better This Radge
These bloody Blairites in a Labour Government eh. Bloody Tories they are. Let's instead elect leaders that have no chance of ever winning. Better losing than having some not real socialist leader who implements social democracy that sees huge increases in the NHS budget. Red bloody Tories....
 

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