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Jack

Aulder Than The Internet This Radge
Isn't the triple lock vote just to do with the fact that wages were so low last year (due to furlough) that this year's increase in wages of 8.5% or whatever it is is totally anomalous? Would be an absolute boot in the baws to be giving all pensioners an 8.5% increase whilst taking the £20 UC uplift off the poorest families, spanking the lower paid with proportionately higher NI impacts, nurses only getting 2.5% pay rise and while everyone is coping with rising food and fuel prices would it not? If I was going in to bat for any of those it wouldn't be the one off suspension of the wage increase element of triple lock. Obviously I'd ideally be going in to bat for all of the above but the 8.5% pension rise would be bottom of my list.
With all due respect Rocky its not a case of arguing one thing against the other. The list you've provided there is a list of shame for the UK. Each one needed or deserving of more. Something Labour, as the official opposition party at Westminster, should be fighting tooth and nail for.

But since we're discussing the OAP even with an 8.5% increase pensioners in the UK would still have one of the worst state pensions in the Western World. Something that has been the case for decades. Not something we should be making worse in my opinion.

NB. I'm not yet old enough to be in receipt of my old age pension.
 

Rocky

Well-Known Radge
With all due respect Rocky its not a case of arguing one thing against the other. The list you've provided there is a list of shame for the UK. Each one needed or deserving of more. Something Labour, as the official opposition party at Westminster, should be fighting tooth and nail for.

But since we're discussing the OAP even with an 8.5% increase pensioners in the UK would still have one of the worst state pensions in the Western World. Something that has been the case for decades. Not something we should be making worse in my opinion.

NB. I'm not yet old enough to be in receipt of my old age pension.
I don't disagree with that but the triple lock never foresaw that wages would drop 7% (or whatever the number was) in one year, which pensioners were insulated from, only to recover the following year and therefore give the state pension recipients a big dunt on the back of others' misfortune. I'm absolutely in favour of addressing the entire list of shame, it would just seem incongruous to me to prioritise that one and I couldn't in all conscience vote for something that puts extra cash in the pockets of all pensioners whether they have £50 grand of private pension or zero at a time when so many others are utterly shafted.

I would deal with the whole shebang through Modern Monetary Theory (I think that's what it's called) and fix it at a stroke but that's not really the immediate point at hand.
 

Doc Shrink

Retired Radge
Isn't the triple lock vote just to do with the fact that wages were so low last year (due to furlough) that this year's increase in wages of 8.5% or whatever it is is totally anomalous? Would be an absolute boot in the baws to be giving all pensioners an 8.5% increase whilst taking the £20 UC uplift off the poorest families, spanking the lower paid with proportionately higher NI impacts, nurses only getting 2.5% pay rise and while everyone is coping with rising food and fuel prices would it not? If I was going in to bat for any of those it wouldn't be the one off suspension of the wage increase element of triple lock. Obviously I'd ideally be going in to bat for all of the above but the 8.5% pension rise would be bottom of my list.


Fcukin kids these days.
:mad:
 
I don't disagree with that but the triple lock never foresaw that wages would drop 7% (or whatever the number was) in one year, which pensioners were insulated from
Pensioners insulated from what exactly, 70% gas cost hikes, or as @Jack points out correctly that the UK already has the lowest State Pension, as a proportion of pre-retirement wages, compared to our European neighbours. In stark contrast, pensioners in Luxembourg and Austria receive 90% of the average working wage.

My State pension does not cover my rent and Community Charge. I have to find money elsewhere for electricity, gas, phone data, food and two Hibernian punter lead charities that I give to before anything else. Your image that you give of left nationalism on here turns to ashes son in the real world when the SNP MPs along with others voted to kick this shite intae touch.

Reformist without reforms.

I do not give a monkey's fuck if you are offended by real world reality of punters struggles to keep their heads above water against bourgeois economists and their reps.

I'm 68 years old and heard shite like this from biscuit arses bairns all my life. Come ahead Rocky. We await your radical voice of reason. Slagging me obviously is counter intuative. However you will. How's yer pension pot doing young man?

BIG G
 

paigntonhibby

Well-Known Radge
I don't disagree with that but the triple lock never foresaw that wages would drop 7% (or whatever the number was) in one year, which pensioners were insulated from, only to recover the following year and therefore give the state pension recipients a big dunt on the back of others' misfortune.
A big dunt ????? 15 fuckin pounds a week or approximately £2.20 a day for folk who've paid into the system for 50 years or more and are probably on a lot less than the people that are losing £ 20 a week family credit. My one little bonus was not having to pay NI on the part time wages I have to top up my miserly fuckin pension but I'm going to have to start paying that again.
70 years old and still driving artics up and down the country cause I can't live on my pension.
What i don't understand is on the one hand the govt say someone has to earn £10 an hour to have a decentish standard of living but expect pensioners to live on £179 a week, and that's only if you've paid all your contributions.
All the things you mentioned need addressing but to pick out pensioners as the least deserving is IMO and with all due respect, bollocks.
I worked as a milk boy at 13 and worked full time from 15 onwards
and after paying tax and insurance for 50 of those years you don't think I'm worth an extra £2.20 a day.??
 

hibbybilly

radge grandad radge
Tories want old folk that are no Tories tae die when they hit pension age. Not enough non Tories are dying when they reach pension age so the fuckin Tories put the pension age up. And they will dae it again, fuckin wankers.
 

Smurf

Auld Enuff Tae Know Better This Radge
The S*n shines out of Stasi Starmers arse.


BIG G
I'm sure that you'll disagree with me on this BIG G but when Blair etc flew to the other end of the world to get that horrible cretin to be open minded on Labour in 1995 I agreed with it. Back then Labour needed the readers of that rag to not be spoon fed anti Labour messages daily. "Newspapers" still mattered.

However, they don't now. These rags are an utter irrelevance. I think New Labour still think it's 1995. Maybe traditional New Labour values in a modern setting.... 👀
 

Rocky

Well-Known Radge
Pensioners insulated from what exactly,
From the 7% wage drop which was literally in the sentence you quoted.
Your image that you give of left nationalism on here
I don't give an image of anything on here, if you've created an image of a left nationalist it's not based on anything I've claimed. I have opinions on things without being beholden to any ideology or political party. Labour is the only political party I've ever been a member of. I support independence reluctantly but I ain't a nationalist.
I do not give a monkey's fuck if you are offended by real world reality of punters struggles to keep their heads above water against bourgeois economists and their reps.
Damn right I'm offended by the real world reality of punters' struggles. Hence why scrapping the UC cut is a higher priority to me than giving EVERY pensioner regardless of private income sources an 8.5% increase. The thought of a pensioner with a 40 grand private pension getting nearly an extra grand a year while UC is cut to working families on the breadline offends me anaw. I'd be busting out a minimum income guarantee to make sure that nobody, whether working, unemployed, pensioner, asylum seeker or any other status was living in poverty.
Slagging me obviously is counter intuative. However you will.
No, I won't. I've no intention of getting drawn into a slagging match with anyone. I don't really understand the aggression and insults you aim towards me, but that's up to you, it won't be winding me up.
How's yer pension pot doing young man?
Pretty decent to be honest. Hence why I'd rather state spending was directed towards folks that need it rather than folk who have pension provisions like mine. Once everyone is out of poverty and able to make ends meet I'll happily take whatever increases are going.
 

Jack

Aulder Than The Internet This Radge
Certainly not as funny as these two clowns.


BIG G
They could get a job in NI.

 

Rocky

Well-Known Radge
It seems to me that Starmer has recognised that the (UK) electorate has lurched to the right with a fair old sprinkling of xenophobia and intolerance in the mix too. He seems to therefore be trying to follow a strategy of taking the party towards them, presumably with the intention of winning an election by any means possible then reverting to Labour values once in power.

I can't say with certainty that that's the wrong approach because if the last eighteen months (longer really) has shown me anything it's that it's very easy to manipulate the great British public if you blow the right dog whistles.

Two big issues I see with the approach though are, first, it's very difficult to unite the party with such a strategy. He's effectively asking everyone to hold their nose on their principles and favoured policies and focus solely on what is essentially spin. That then creates the second issue which is that no-one in the party who buys into his approach can really come across as authentic because all they're being asked to do is to put across party messages. They can't do that with the conviction that comes from long held beliefs and principles.
 

jock3

Well-Known Radge
The over-riding lesson for the left is: you must not attempt to negotiate/pander to the right wing. They will lie, cheat and stab you in the back. Corbyn was guilty of this, what he should have done, at the right time was, mobilise the working class through the trade union movement.
 
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Smurf

Auld Enuff Tae Know Better This Radge
The over-riding lesson for the left is: you must not attempt to negotiate/pander to the right wing. They will lie, cheat and stab you in the back. Corbyn was guilty of this, what he should have done, at the right time was, mobilise the working class through the trade union movement.
It was Jeremy Corbyn who stabbed the folk that matter in the back. His voters.... Labour voters in England in the northern heartlands voted for Brexit. Jeremy Corbyn has wanted Brexit his entire political career yet he didn't have the conviction or balls to stand up one way or the other. His is IMO a well intentioned guy. Motivations are what you want in a politician. But he was weak.
 
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