Media George Floyd just another in a long line.

[paigntonhibby]

so do I, have you been protesting against work conditions in the stadium builds?

Nope, but then again I wasnt rioting on the streets about a thug who was illegally killed in a foreign country either.

 

[Gareth]

Nope, but then again I wasnt rioting on the streets about a thug who was illegally killed in a foreign country either.

so you don't care about either modern slavery or racist murders, so why are you expending so much energy arguing about it. actually, don't answer that, I don't care

 

[paigntonhibby]

so you don't care about either modern slavery or racist murders, so why are you expending so much energy arguing about it. actually, don't answer that, I don't care

Yes I do care but I'm too busy working to maintain my apparently white privelaged lifestyle that I dont have time to riot or protest.

 

[Hattie]

This thread is getting boring.
i know i dont have to read it..but its here, i read it and well, I just thought id say its going nowhere, round in circles.
AND i know i probably have a cheek after some of the pish i post but.... there comes a time ( neil young) when it isnt going anywhere and maybe, agree to disagree on terms?
im probably being hypocritical but, im just saying

 

[Rocky]

I'm hearing a polisman was found guilty of murdering George Floyd. Not sure if this is the right thread to mention it in?

 

[aggie]

To be honest Aggie I have no idea what his background is as it is/was not relevant to the fact he was murdered by a copper

p.s. good to see you back

I know, you're absolutely right - it is/was absolutely not relevant to the fact he was murdered by a copper.

That's not what I was saying, though - I'm saying it is relevant to the fact that the guy is being held up as some kind of saint, and in fact it's counterproductive to boot; specifically a) because it's understandable that many people baulk at deifying a guy who holds guns to pregnant women's stomachs, and b) that advancing an 'innocent martyr' narrative only arms those who want to ignore the larger issue with great 'whataboutery' fodder.

Acknowledging both that the murder was wrong and that Floyd was quite clearly a nasty piece of work shouldn't be mutually exclusive, surely? It's just puzzling to me more than anything that so many people seem so reluctant to do so.

p.s. cheers!

 

[paigntonhibby]

I'm hearing a polisman was found guilty of murdering George Floyd. Not sure if this is the right thread to mention it in?

Nope, you're going off topic

 

[paigntonhibby]

This thread is getting boring.
i know i dont have to read it..but its here, i read it and well, I just thought id say its going nowhere, round in circles.
AND i know i probably have a cheek after some of the pish i post but.... there comes a time ( neil young) when it isnt going anywhere and maybe, agree to disagree on terms?
im probably being hypocritical but, im just saying

Yes it is, yes you have ,yes you are but you're right

 

[moathibby]

The chinese were pretty good at it as were the mongols ,Egyptians, arabs, Russians and every other " civilisation" there's ever been. In actual fact Europeans came to it rather late in the day, 17th century.
Had the means been available to any other civilisation I'm pretty sure they would have taken advantage. Many royal navy sailors lost their lives abolishing slavery but that doesnt fit the agenda that we're responsible for all the worlds ills. Focus should be on the slavery that still exists rather than what happened in the past which nobody alive today is responsible for.

America recieved it's Independence in the late 18th Century.There was then a fight over slavery in the 1860s Civil War The KKK were set up with the support of the Democrats and their activities lasted way into the 1920's.There was at least 3 US Presidents rumoured-strongly; to have been members. An apartheid system and Jim Crow lasted up until the Civil Rights marches of the 60's.Blacks fought back as they have done recently. But it has been acknowledged by all right minded people that Slavery was a crime and should be acknowledged as such. We're not talking about Gladiator or Genghis Khan we're talking about a power that exists 'now', the biggest power in the world and it was built on the backs of slavery. If you want to talk about Hadrian's Wall or Kublai Khan go right ahead, but don't do it to deflect from the fact that there is systemic racism in the US and here racism that can be traced back to how the US Empire was built.

 

[moathibby]

No moral compasses involved re the Arabs it's an example how people are more concerned at what happened 3 or 4 hundred years ago than what is happening today, why are rentamob not rampaging outside the UAE and Saudi embassy demanding justice and an end to the slave like conditions of their foreign workers. How many fans , with views like yourself will happily go and sit in the football stadia at the world cup that many of these workers died building.
I think many fans of a certain generation have been involved in violence, including myself, but it was always against people who were fighting back, I've never held a gun to a defenceless pregnant woman's belly and I'd be shocked if anybody else on here has, he was not a nice man he was a thug.

I've demonstrated outside both the Saudi Embassy and the UAE. With a mob. I'm unable to do it at the moment due to covid restrictions.

 

[GORDONSMITH7]

I've demonstrated outside both the Saudi Embassy and the UAE. With a mob. I'm unable to do it at the moment due to covid restrictions.

You lefties are all the same, demonstrations at the drop of a hat. Firstly what's your agenda, secondly, what's your agenda.

BIG G

 

[paigntonhibby]

America recieved it's Independence in the late 18th Century.There was then a fight over slavery in the 1860s Civil War The KKK were set up with the support of the Democrats and their activities lasted way into the 1920's.There was at least 3 US Presidents rumoured-strongly; to have been members. An apartheid system and Jim Crow lasted up until the Civil Rights marches of the 60's.Blacks fought back as they have done recently. But it has been acknowledged by all right minded people that Slavery was a crime and should be acknowledged as such. We're not talking about Gladiator or Genghis Khan we're talking about a power that exists 'now', the biggest power in the world and it was built on the backs of slavery. If you want to talk about Hadrian's Wall or Kublai Khan go right ahead, but don't do it to deflect from the fact that there is systemic racism in the US and here racism that can be traced back to how the US Empire was built.

I think the UK and the US are very different when it comes to racism. Slavery was wrong and the slave trade from africa to the west indies and the Americas was brought to a halt mainly by the efforts of the Royal Navy ,which it gets very little credit for.
There's not many countries in the world that are more tolerant of people from different ethnic backgrounds than the UK and so.etimes people look for racism where there isnt any. A recent example of that was Jeremy Vine and Philip's funeral

 

[paigntonhibby]

I've demonstrated outside both the Saudi Embassy and the UAE. With a mob. I'm unable to do it at the moment due to covid restrictions.

You obviously think the treatment of foreign workers in the middle east is a joke then

 

[Doc Shrink]

I think the UK and the US are very different when it comes to racism. Slavery was wrong and the slave trade from africa to the west indies and the Americas was brought to a halt mainly by the efforts of the Royal Navy ,which it gets very little credit for.
There's not many countries in the world that are more tolerant of people from different ethnic backgrounds than the UK and so.etimes people look for racism where there isnt any. A recent example of that was Jeremy Vine and Philip's funeral

What was the Vine/funeral stuff?

 

[Rocky]

What was the Vine/funeral stuff?

He asked a daft question and the sort of people who call others snowflakes got terribly worked up about it.

 

[GORDONSMITH7]

He asked a daft question and the sort of people who call others snowflakes got terribly worked up about it.

Terribly sad. I thought that Vine may have correctly said that the newly deceased was a bastard, racist parasite, whose equally parasitic wife has been pledged allegiance to by generations of armed bodies of men and women. Let's not forget the Polis.
Yours in utter disappointment
BIG G

 

[Rocky]

Terribly sad. I thought that Vine may have correctly said that the newly deceased was a bastard, racist parasite, whose equally parasitic wife has been pledged allegiance to by generations of armed bodies of men and women. Let's not forget the Polis.
Yours in utter disappointment
BIG G

I suppose if he had said that you could maybe understand some people getting all purple faced about it.

But no, he just asked if it was a problem that there wouldn't be "anybody of colour" at the funeral. To which most people obviously just thought "lol that's a dumb fuck question" and carried on with their day without giving it another thought. Apparently some people got really quite triggered by it though.

 

[paigntonhibby]

He asked a daft question and the sort of people who call others snowflakes got terribly worked up about it.

It was an example of people looking for racism where there isnt any . I cant say I noticed too many getting terribly worked up about it, most people thought it was just vine being his usual smarmy self.

 

[paigntonhibby]

I suppose if he had said that you could maybe understand some people getting all purple faced about it.

But no, he just asked if it was a problem that there wouldn't be "anybody of colour" at the funeral. To which most people obviously just thought "lol that's a dumb fuck question" and carried on with their day without giving it another thought. Apparently some people got really quite triggered by it though.

He said that of the 30 people who were attending they were all white faces, should that be a problem. Obviously trying to start a discussion about a racial problem which which wasnt. And to be fair I didnt get triggered by it I used it as an example of people looking for racism where it didnt exist.

 

[paigntonhibby]

Terribly sad. I thought that Vine may have correctly said that the newly deceased was a bastard, racist parasite, whose equally parasitic wife has been pledged allegiance to by generations of armed bodies of men and women. Let's not forget the Polis.
Yours in utter disappointment
BIG G

And I got ripped for calling a thug a thug. Standards eh.

 

[Rocky]

He said that of the 30 people who were attending they were all white faces, should that be a problem. Obviously trying to start a discussion about a racial problem which which wasnt. And to be fair I didnt get triggered by it I used it as an example of people looking for racism where it didnt exist.

Right, so just to check that I understand correctly:

Jeremy Vine asks one particular inane question during a period of wall to wall, hour after hour, live telly where there's literally nothing happening so all anyone can do is ask inane questions till they're blue in the face: SUITABLE to be quoted as an example of a wider issue

Yet another black man is unlawfully killed by the police, this time by having his neck knelt on for 9 minutes whilst pleading he's unable to breathe: NOT SUITABLE to be quoted as an example of a wider issue with police racism and must be argued against relentlessly with many dubious statistics, attacks on the victims character and spectacular levels of whataboutery.

The levels of mental contortion you're dedicating to this are genuinely quite impressive so fair play.

 

[paigntonhibby]

Right, so just to check that I understand correctly:

Jeremy Vine asks one particular inane question during a period of wall to wall, hour after hour, live telly where there's literally nothing happening so all anyone can do is ask inane questions till they're blue in the face: SUITABLE to be quoted as an example of a wider issue

Yet another black man is unlawfully killed by the police, this time by having his neck knelt on for 9 minutes whilst pleading he's unable to breathe: NOT SUITABLE to be quoted as an example of a wider issue with police racism and must be argued against relentlessly with many dubious statistics, attacks on the victims character and spectacular levels of whataboutery.

The levels of mental contortion you're dedicating to this are genuinely quite impressive so fair play.

I'm glad you're impressed.
What dubious statistics ?
Why does every black death at the hands of the police have to be described as racism. I've no doubt some of them might be but more are probably general police brutality, sheer incompetence, bad training.

 

[Rocky]

I'm glad you're impressed.
What dubious statistics ?
Why does every black death at the hands of the police have to be described as racism. I've no doubt some of them might be but more are probably general police brutality, sheer incompetence, bad training.

It doesn't have to be described as racism. But if a catalogue of events anecdotally start to look like a pattern of underlying racism most people would take the view that the right thing to do is dig further and keep digging until it's been proven one way or another. Other people prefer to expend many thousands of words telling the rest of us it's not an issue. That stance is somewhat undermined when in the next breath they quote a journalist asking a dumbass question as some kind of evidence for rampant oversensitivity to perceived racism.

 

[paigntonhibby]

It doesn't have to be described as racism. But if a catalogue of events anecdotally start to look like a pattern of underlying racism most people would take the view that the right thing to do is dig further and keep digging until it's been proven one way or another. Other people prefer to expend many thousands of words telling the rest of us it's not an issue. That stance is somewhat undermined when in the next breath they quote a journalist asking a dumbass question as some kind of evidence for rampant oversensitivity to perceived racism.

I take it by "other people " and " they " you mean me.Just looked back through my posts and nowhere have I said racism doesnt exist or is acceptable. Also I never said anything about rampant oversensitivity to perceived racism.
There's enough racism without people like vine looking for it where it doesnt exist.
I really dont care if you or anybody else disagrees with me, I'm as entitled to my opinion as you are and if your going to use what I say to strengthen your arguement get it right.
Aggie sums all this up better than I can

 

[GORDONSMITH7]

And I got ripped for calling a thug a thug. Standards eh.

I was within touching distance of calling a reactionary a reactionary Tony. It could have been worse.

BIG G

 

[paigntonhibby]

I was within touching distance of calling a reactionary a reactionary Tony. It could have been worse.

BIG G

I'm certainly not a reactionary Gordon ,I'm an optimist, I think things are better than they were. Not perfect but definately better

 

[Rocky]

I'm certainly not a reactionary Gordon ,I'm an optimist, I think things are better than they were. Not perfect but definately better

Can definitely agree that things are getting better and sometimes it's easy to lose sight of that by constantly moving on to the next battle without looking at how far we've come. There needs to be a balance.

 

[moathibby]

You lefties are all the same, demonstrations at the drop of a hat. Firstly what's your agenda, secondly, what's your agenda.

BIG G

Overthrow Capitalism and replace it with something fairer.

 

[moathibby]

You obviously think the treatment of foreign workers in the middle east is a joke then

No the demonstrations were because we thought what was happening in these particular countries was abhorrent.

 

[aggie]

Overthrow Capitalism and replace it with something fairer.

Worked out what that might be yet?

 

[Rocky]

Worked out what that might be yet?

I'd settle for capitalism with UBI, free services, health and education and mega progressive taxation (I.e. taxing fuck out of the top 10% and working down from that). Too simplistic?

 

[moathibby]

A world where everyone is treated equally, where the wealth created by us is distributed equally, where everyone has enough to eat, where everyone has enough to drink where everyone has a roof over their heads, where there is an end to racism, sexism, homophobia, trans phobia, and all prejudices. Where people are free to develop themselves into whatever they desire, through properly funded education and resources. Where people feel free to say 'this is me accept me for what I am' .Where there is properly funded health and no money spared to find the cures for all our ills. Where nobody is stigmatised for whatever their mental or physical state of health might be. Where leisure time becomes more of the standard and where necessary work(cleaning the bogs and streets for instance gets decided like jury service is now).Green energy will become important and invested in ,solar power, wind farms, electric vehicles would become standard. Abortion will be on demand and family units will wither away, child care will become communal along with laundry, cooking, sex will become consensual and free, monogamous relationships will not be the norm. Religion will be practiced for those who wish it, sport may become less competitive, more for personal fitness than for winning. Science will produce the best commodities possible, all commodities will be free. The State will wither away. Eventually money relations will wither away. I'll leave it there.

 

[Rocky]

I vote Moaty for our leader

 

[aggie]

A world where everyone is treated equally, where the wealth created by us is distributed equally, where everyone has enough to eat, where everyone has enough to drink where everyone has a roof over their heads, where there is an end to racism, sexism, homophobia, trans phobia, and all prejudices. Where people are free to develop themselves into whatever they desire, through properly funded education and resources. Where people feel free to say 'this is me accept me for what I am' .Where there is properly funded health and no money spared to find the cures for all our ills. Where nobody is stigmatised for whatever their mental or physical state of health might be. Where leisure time becomes more of the standard and where necessary work(cleaning the bogs and streets for instance gets decided like jury service is now).Green energy will become important and invested in ,solar power, wind farms, electric vehicles would become standard. Abortion will be on demand and family units will wither away, child care will become communal along with laundry, cooking, sex will become consensual and free, monogamous relationships will not be the norm. Religion will be practiced for those who wish it, sport may become less competitive, more for personal fitness than for winning. Science will produce the best commodities possible, all commodities will be free. The State will wither away. Eventually money relations will wither away. I'll leave it there.

Any spare Soma?

 

[moathibby]

Any spare Soma?

No idea what Soma is sorry.

 

[moathibby]

No idea what Soma is sorry.

Whatever lingerie you like will be produced, it will be the best, it will also be free.

 

[Tatie]

A world where everyone is treated equally, where the wealth created by us is distributed equally, where everyone has enough to eat, where everyone has enough to drink where everyone has a roof over their heads, where there is an end to racism, sexism, homophobia, trans phobia, and all prejudices. Where people are free to develop themselves into whatever they desire, through properly funded education and resources. Where people feel free to say 'this is me accept me for what I am' .Where there is properly funded health and no money spared to find the cures for all our ills. Where nobody is stigmatised for whatever their mental or physical state of health might be. Where leisure time becomes more of the standard and where necessary work(cleaning the bogs and streets for instance gets decided like jury service is now).Green energy will become important and invested in ,solar power, wind farms, electric vehicles would become standard. Abortion will be on demand and family units will wither away, child care will become communal along with laundry, cooking, sex will become consensual and free, monogamous relationships will not be the norm. Religion will be practiced for those who wish it, sport may become less competitive, more for personal fitness than for winning. Science will produce the best commodities possible, all commodities will be free. The State will wither away. Eventually money relations will wither away. I'll leave it there.

That's some wish list mate, and 99% won't happen.

 

[Doc Shrink]

That's some wish list mate, and 99% won't happen.

I’m happy with my family unit, so I’m not keen on it withering.

Not sure why that would be a priority in Moaty‘s world.

@moathibby ?

 

[Hectorhib]

For a bit there It was up there with the "I have a dream" speech. It fell off the cliff when it mentioned a bog cleaning rota.

 

[paigntonhibby]

I’m happy with my family unit, so I’m not keen on it withering.

Not sure why that would be a priority in Moaty‘s world.

@moathibby ?

Thought moaty was doing quite well up till the necessary work bit and then it all got a bit cult like, if that's the proper term