Corona virus on its own thread.

[Smurf]

I agree that restrictions need to be lifted but I'd have liked to have seen many more 18-30 double vaccinated before doing so.

 

[Doc Shrink]

It's about 'when' really isn't it?
Those who are at highest risk of serious illness or death are probably entitled to be less comfortable about a complete return to 'normality' in perhaps undue haste.

It will be welcomed by the arseholes and halfwits who ignore 'directional arrows' in shopping centres and refuse to wear masks on public transport and shops though, although coincidentally most of them seem to hang around Livingston and just strut about glaring at the general populace abiding by the 'rules'. The 'sheeple' apparently.
Not implying you're included in either category Aggie.

 

[1875]

Exactly. There are many on here for whom there will literally never be a set of circumstances where it is deemed acceptable to get on with life.

I have been slowly getting back into things, attended fitba, been for a pint, ate out, shopping etc and its fine, just abide by your own rules. Only thing that has went wrong, we had 8 staff in at work and one of the staff had covid which caused some panic.

 

[Rocky]

I

Exactly. There are many on here for whom there will literally never be a set of circumstances where it is deemed acceptable to get on with life.

I literally can't think of a single poster who comes across that way to me.

 

[Greenmachine]

My brother (who is a community childrens mental health nurse in West Yorkshire), his two sons and one of his sons girlfriend have all tested positive for Covid and are all isolating at home just now. I was chatting to him last night and he says it is like having a heavy cold, headache, aching muscles etc, but he is feeling better than he was at the week-end. On the mend.

Most of us are going to get this virus eventually at some point in our lives. It can't be stopped. We just have to try to keep the numbers down as much as possible and especially prevent serious illness and hospitalisations and sadly deaths. We can't do anything about new variants either (they will happen for evermore), there will be adjustments to the vaccines by the Autumn to deal with this and I expect all over 50's to get a booster jag before the Winter.

We are going to see increases in cases soon, but the key thing from the data is that we appear to have more or less broken the link between infections and serious illness/hospitalisations and that is what really matters here. We have to open up society fully now IMO or we never will. Physical distancing will go, but I suspect facemask wearing will still be mandatory in Scotland and Wales for a few months more anyway. As I said before though I believe this should be voluntary as it is going to be in England, but I respect the decision that the Scottish Government have to make. They are being more cautious and that is up to them based on the health advice they are getting. Facemasks don't bother me, i've been wearing them in shops/supermarkets. public transport/ church for well over a year now. I just think ultimately it should be a personal decision whether you wear them or not. I certainly hope they are gone by the start of next year especially for indoor events and travelling.

 

[Zab]

One thing I hope doesn’t disappear is the increased focus on hygiene in public places. Being able to easily clean or sanitise your hands on public transport, in airports, at the football needs to stay, as does the rigorous cleaning regimes of offices, pubs and restaurants.

 

[Doc Shrink]

One thing I hope doesn’t disappear is the increased focus on hygiene in public places. Being able to easily clean or sanitise your hands on public transport, in airports, at the football needs to stay, as does the rigorous cleaning regimes of offices, pubs and restaurants.

I won't be helping myself to the free peanuts or wasabi peas in hotel bars in future.
It was bad enough that they tasted faintly of stale urine, but now they may well be laced with covid........ that's a risk too far.

 

[C4MMY]

I ended up with it a couple weeks ago, have had no jags yet and just felt like I had the cold with a sore head chucked into every so often. I managed to give it to my mrs who has had both vaccinations and she was floored by it and spent 3 days unable to get out of bed, so unsure how bad she would’ve been without it

 

[Rocky]

Would be interested in people's thoughts on this. From what I've read variants are fairly unlikely to escape vaccines as if they mutate that much they're likely to lose potency anyway. But I'm conscious I don't want to rely on wishful thinking.

 

[Jack]

Would be interested in people's thoughts on this. From what I've read variants are fairly unlikely to escape vaccines as if they mutate that much they're likely to lose potency anyway. But I'm conscious I don't want to rely on wishful thinking.

This virus has been only predictable for its unpredictability.

For the sake of a couple of months till all those that can be vaccinated are opening up down south in my opinion is irresponsible.

 

[Zab]

Would be interested in people's thoughts on this. From what I've read variants are fairly unlikely to escape vaccines as if they mutate that much they're likely to lose potency anyway. But I'm conscious I don't want to rely on wishful thinking.

I’ve read similar on the variants and their potency, which is encouraging but like you I hope it’s not wishful thinking.

For this person to suggest the government is a danger to the world is frankly ridiculous and the kind of narrative of fear that’s been used throughout… There’s other countries already way ahead of the UK in terms of removing restrictions, and they were further behind in their vaccine rollouts at the time, yet I’m struggling to find any commentators giving a thorough analysis of the current situation in these countries.

 

[Jack]

I’ve read similar on the variants and their potency, which is encouraging but like you I hope it’s not wishful thinking.

For this person to suggest the government is a danger to the world is frankly ridiculous and the kind of narrative of fear that’s been used throughout… There’s other countries already way ahead of the UK in terms of removing restrictions, and they were further behind in their vaccine rollouts at the time, yet I’m struggling to find any commentators giving a thorough analysis of the current situation in these countries.

I see what you're saying but you generally only find out about other countries when they're doing worse than England. I was going to say the UK but the papers seem to revel when Scotland is doing badly!

What you're saying about other countries opening. Do they have the Delta variant running rampant through their populations?

A quick look at worldmeters suggests we're (UK) having top 5 in the world new cases each day, 6 times more than Israel the other oft mentioned highly vaccinated country in 66th place. USA hasn't been in the top 10 recently, less than a third the daily rate of the UK.

 

[hibadelic]

England aren’t exactly leading the way on lifting restrictions and moving towards heard immunity. For example Hungary did so over a month go (50% of the population had had a least a first dose only at that stage), as have large parts of the USA.

It’s not possible to vaccinate everyone so we can’t wait for that to happen or we’ll be waiting forever, therefore herd immunity has to come in to play at

You don't think it'd be a better idea to manage the lifting of restrictions rather than just lift them all at once

England aren’t exactly leading the way on lifting restrictions and moving towards heard immunity. For example Hungary did so over a month go (50% of the population had had a least a first dose only at that stage), as have large parts of the USA.

It’s not possible to vaccinate everyone so we can’t wait for that to happen or we’ll be waiting forever, therefore herd immunity has to come in to play at some point.

Surely better to wait until you've vaccinated as many as you can andsnage it as best you can rather han

England aren’t exactly leading the way on lifting restrictions and moving towards heard immunity. For example Hungary did so over a month go (50% of the population had had a least a first dose only at that stage), as have large parts of the USA.

It’s not possible to vaccinate everyone so we can’t wait for that to happen or we’ll be waiting forever, therefore herd immunity has to come in to play at some point.

I've not heard any expert get behind this plan and that's a worry.

I'm surprised that you don't see the moral implications of encouraging the virus to spread in children when we don't know the full implications or long term effects.

We don't even know how long the antibodies last after you get the disease. After ensuring as many as possible get it, we could be in the same position in a year.

Most importantly, if that's your plan, why not wait a couple of months until you have vaccinated everyone who wants it, been clear that it's your plan and given everyone who chooses not to get the virus a chance to leave or hide or something.

I get that everyone want to get back to normal and herd immunity might be a way but FFS, manage it properly, communicate it properly and do your best to minimise collateral damage. None of that is happening, and that's a problem.

 

[hibadelic]

I seem to have fkd up the quotes. This was in response to Zab:

I've not heard any expert get behind this plan and that's a worry.

I'm surprised that you don't see the moral implications of encouraging the virus to spread in children when we don't know the full implications or long term effects.

We don't even know how long the antibodies last after you get the disease. After ensuring as many as possible get it, we could be in the same position in a year.

Most importantly, if that's your plan, why not wait a couple of months until you have vaccinated everyone who wants it, been clear that it's your plan and given everyone who chooses not to get the virus a chance to leave or hide or something.

I get that everyone want to get back to normal and herd immunity might be a way but FFS, manage it properly, communicate it properly and do your best to minimise collateral damage. None of that is happening, and that's a problem.

 

[Zab]

I seem to have fkd up the quotes. This was in response to Zab:

I've not heard any expert get behind this plan and that's a worry.

I'm surprised that you don't see the moral implications of encouraging the virus to spread in children when we don't know the full implications or long term effects.

We don't even know how long the antibodies last after you get the disease. After ensuring as many as possible get it, we could be in the same position in a year.

Most importantly, if that's your plan, why not wait a couple of months until you have vaccinated everyone who wants it, been clear that it's your plan and given everyone who chooses not to get the virus a chance to leave or hide or something.

I get that everyone want to get back to normal and herd immunity might be a way but FFS, manage it properly, communicate it properly and do your best to minimise collateral damage. None of that is happening, and that's a problem.

I’ve not heard many expert opinions on it one way or the other, which is my point. There’s seems to be no mainstream media reporting/analysis which to me is agenda driven rather than scientific.

Regarding the moral implications, that’s a subject with many shades of grey. I agree we don’t know the full impact, we might never know, so do we wait and hopefully find out? You can’t seriously be suggesting we live like this for 20 years until we know how the next generation are impacted?! How does that then influence the moral impact of businesses not being able to continue trading, people losing jobs, more poverty, more food banks, manufacturer and construction not being able to keep up with the demand for housing therefore more homelessness, the mental health implications of all this?

 

[Zab]

I see what you're saying but you generally only find out about other countries when they're doing worse than England. I was going to say the UK but the papers seem to revel when Scotland is doing badly!

What you're saying about other countries opening. Do they have the Delta variant running rampant through their populations?

A quick look at worldmeters suggests we're (UK) having top 5 in the world new cases each day, 6 times more than Israel the other oft mentioned highly vaccinated country in 66th place. USA hasn't been in the top 10 recently, less than a third the daily rate of the UK.

I agree and that’s the problem, we should be seeking to find out what positives are out there. I don’t know whether they have the delta variant, but again it’s because there’s not enough analysis out there.

The accuracy of the case counters is debatable too, as I don’t believe all countries are testing (and reporting) to same volume we are.

 

[hibadelic]

I’ve not heard many expert opinions on it one way or the other, which is my point. There’s seems to be no mainstream media reporting/analysis which to me is agenda driven rather than scientific.

Regarding the moral implications, that’s a subject with many shades of grey. I agree we don’t know the full impact, we might never know, so do we wait and hopefully find out? You can’t seriously be suggesting we live like this for 20 years until we know how the next generation are impacted?! How does that then influence the moral impact of businesses not being able to continue trading, people losing jobs, more poverty, more food banks, manufacturer and construction not being able to keep up with the demand for housing therefore more homelessness, the mental health implications of all this?

You wont find me arguing that the media has been shown any ability to report the complexities of the pandemic but you don't need to look hard to find expert opinion.

It seems that you've fallen for the Tory "now or never" line. The reality is that's just bollocks though, it doesn't have to be a cliff edge in two weeks time and there's no genuine reason that stands any scrutiny as to why it should be then. I'm not arguing the government(s) should wait 20 years until we know every single fact but they should:

a) Provide some sort of scientific analysis and consensus that this is a reasonable option
b) Provide more transparency about how and why they reached the decision to infect an entire population with Covid-19
c) Explain why we're not waiting until we've maximised the number vaccinated in order to minimise the number of deaths
d) Given, by their own admission, this is a step into the unknown, provide a clear framework for the steps that will be taken if things don't go to plan. Or even just communicate a plan beyond "just open everything and see what happens"

 

[Zab]

You wont find me arguing that the media has been shown any ability to report the complexities of the pandemic but you don't need to look hard to find expert opinion.

It seems that you've fallen for the Tory "now or never" line. The reality is that's just bollocks though, it doesn't have to be a cliff edge in two weeks time and there's no genuine reason that stands any scrutiny as to why it should be then. I'm not arguing the government(s) should wait 20 years until we know every single fact but they should:

a) Provide some sort of scientific analysis and consensus that this is a reasonable option
b) Provide more transparency about how and why they reached the decision to infect an entire population with Covid-19
c) Explain why we're not waiting until we've maximised the number vaccinated in order to minimise the number of deaths
d) Given, by their own admission, this is a step into the unknown, provide a clear framework for the steps that will be taken if things don't go to plan. Or even just communicate a plan beyond "just open everything and see what happens"

I’ve not fallen for any Tory line, I don’t really listen to what they say. I’m simply taking a view of what’s happening in other parts of the world, and questioning why we are not analysing the pro’s and con’s.

I agree with all of your points, but they should be explaining this stuff either way. Why we’re persisting with lockdowns etc or why we’re moving to fully re-opening.

 

[GORDONSMITH7]

After the lockdown: Welcome to the new ‘normal’ | The Communist

The Tories have confirmed plans to lift all remaining COVID restrictions on 19 July. But society will not return to ‘normal’. The period ahead will be one of contagion, capitalist crisis, and class struggle. Workers must organise and fight back.

www.socialist.net

BIG G

 

[Jack]

After the lockdown: Welcome to the new ‘normal’ | The Communist

The Tories have confirmed plans to lift all remaining COVID restrictions on 19 July. But society will not return to ‘normal’. The period ahead will be one of contagion, capitalist crisis, and class struggle. Workers must organise and fight back.

www.socialist.net

BIG G

I agree with most of that.

I was just thinking earlier today that the opening up probably has more to do with the torys having drained as much public cash from the covid crisis as they can and are now looking for new opportunities to fleece the country.

Remember too throughout the next few months and years that the effects of Brexit will be blamed on covid.

We, Scotland, need to escape this clusterfuck.

 

[bigmanandy]

A few scientists slowly coming out and saying Johnson's approach is wrong, opening up fully will likely cause a vaccine resistant variant.

 

[hibadelic]

I agree and that’s the problem, we should be seeking to find out what positives are out there. I don’t know whether they have the delta variant, but again it’s because there’s not enough analysis out there.

The accuracy of the case counters is debatable too, as I don’t believe all countries are testing (and reporting) to same volume we are.

What makes you think there's no analysis? I can see plenty reported by credible sources on social media.

The World Health Organisation has been scathing today too: WHO warns of ‘epidemiological stupidity’ of early Covid reopening

 

[Zab]

What makes you think there's no analysis? I can see plenty reported by credible sources on social media.

The World Health Organisation has been scathing today too: WHO warns of ‘epidemiological stupidity’ of early Covid reopening

I didn’t say none, I said not enough. That article only skims over what’s going on else where, I don’t consider stating simple facts as analysis. Maybe that’s more an inditement of the calibre of journalism these days, but I’d expect to hear more from the government about how their plans are affected by taking a view on what’s happening elsewhere.

 

[hibadelic]

I didn’t say none, I said not enough. That article only skims over what’s going on else where, I don’t consider stating simple facts as analysis. Maybe that’s more an inditement of the calibre of journalism these days, but I’d expect to hear more from the government about how their plans are affected by taking a view on what’s happening elsewhere.

Aye, sorry you're talking about analysis in the media. I'd agree with you there, there's very little that's not basic and politically motivated. I've given up on the MSM.

Theres plenty of analysis going on though and not much of the credible stuff favouring mass infecting of populations.

 

[GORDONSMITH7]

It’s not possible to vaccinate everyone so we can’t wait for that to happen or we’ll be waiting forever, therefore herd immunity has to come in to play at some point.

Javid accused by disease genetics expert of creating perfect conditions for immunity-bypassing variant

Banker running Dept of Health is effectively experimenting on population to create supervariant, says genetics professor Professor Steve Paterson is an expert in genetics and infectious diseases at…

skwawkbox.org

BIG G

 

[Zab]

Javid accused by disease genetics expert of creating perfect conditions for immunity-bypassing variant

Banker running Dept of Health is effectively experimenting on population to create supervariant, says genetics professor Professor Steve Paterson is an expert in genetics and infectious diseases at…

skwawkbox.org

BIG G

Whether now’s the right time to be completely lifting restrictions is debatable. I’m not saying it has to be to now, but it has to happen at some point. It’s impossible to completely vaccinate the entire population, so that can’t be the cut off.

 

[Jack]

Whether now’s the right time to be completely lifting restrictions is debatable. I’m not saying it has to be to now, but it has to happen at some point. It’s impossible to completely vaccinate the entire population, so that can’t be the cut off.

For me there's two things at play here. There's the possibility of a vaccine resistant strain of the virus, as is being discussed.

But there's also the effects of long covid. We don't know how that will affect folk as we move on. It seems most of those that get it are OK after 6 or so weeks. But even small percentages of folk affected after a year or more is huge numbers.

Opening up now, while the younger people have still to get immunity through the vaccine, is leaving those with the longest to live with long covid exposed.

As the Witty professor said ...
Fundamentally the two ways to prevent long Covid in my view are to keep Covid rates right down and make sure everyone is vaccinated so they get very mild disease and I think we really just need to push hell for leather for those two.

We appear to have broken the link between cases and hospitalisations/deaths but sadly we'll be establishing a link between cases in the under 30s and long covid.

 

[hibadelic]

For me there's two things at play here. There's the possibility of a vaccine resistant strain of the virus, as is being discussed.

But there's also the effects of long covid. We don't know how that will affect folk as we move on. It seems most of those that get it are OK after 6 or so weeks. But even small percentages of folk affected after a year or more is huge numbers.

Opening up now, while the younger people have still to get immunity through the vaccine, is leaving those with the longest to live with long covid exposed.

As the Witty professor said ...
Fundamentally the two ways to prevent long Covid in my view are to keep Covid rates right down and make sure everyone is vaccinated so they get very mild disease and I think we really just need to push hell for leather for those two.

We appear to have broken the link between cases and hospitalisations/deaths but sadly we'll be establishing a link between cases in the under 30s and long covid.

The UK government seems to have broken the link between the average population and common sense.

 

[Jack]

The UK government seems to have broken the link between the average population and common sense.

One of my often repeated sayings is that common sense isn't all that common.

 

[Greenmachine]

I think Scotland's full re-opening day is going to be put back a few weeks.
Some hospitals toiling already with capacity, and Scotland has seen huge rises in cases.

 

[hibadelic]

I think Scotland's full re-opening day is going to be put back a few weeks.
Some hospitals toiling already with capacity, and Scotland has seen huge rises in cases.

Aye, anecdotally I know more people than ever with the disease and my own children are self isolating.

I suspect the Scottish Government are holding their tongues over what's happening in England as they watch it unfold. I suspect they are considering a similar (but presumably better communicated, justified and organised) approach once things are under control.

 

[hibadelic]

Pushback on the Tories plans does seem to be making headlines:

COVID-19: Tolerating high levels of COVID infections is both 'unethical and illogical', scientists warn

In a letter published in The Lancet, 122 scientists warned any strategy that tolerates high levels of infection is both "unethical and illogical".

www.google.com

Redirect Notice

Scientists accuse UK government of ignoring ‘long Covid’ threat

Medical experts say it could be most damaging consequence of ending lockdown restrictions

www.google.com

UK scientists caution that lifting of Covid rules is like building ‘variant factories’

Experts react with dismay to ‘frightening’ attitude of Sajid Javid towards removing protections

www.google.com

Scientists slam 'bonkers' government lockdown plans after Covid likened to flu

<span>The experts have broken ranks to lash out at 'frightening' Health Secretary as the Government gears up to lift restrictions on 'Freedom Day', with one branding the plans 'bonkers'</span>

www.google.com

I suspect most of England is not paying much attention at the moment though.

 

[Zab]

Pushback on the Tories plans does seem to be making headlines:

COVID-19: Tolerating high levels of COVID infections is both 'unethical and illogical', scientists warn

In a letter published in The Lancet, 122 scientists warned any strategy that tolerates high levels of infection is both "unethical and illogical".

www.google.com

Redirect Notice

Scientists accuse UK government of ignoring ‘long Covid’ threat

Medical experts say it could be most damaging consequence of ending lockdown restrictions

www.google.com

UK scientists caution that lifting of Covid rules is like building ‘variant factories’

Experts react with dismay to ‘frightening’ attitude of Sajid Javid towards removing protections

www.google.com

Scientists slam 'bonkers' government lockdown plans after Covid likened to flu

<span>The experts have broken ranks to lash out at 'frightening' Health Secretary as the Government gears up to lift restrictions on 'Freedom Day', with one branding the plans 'bonkers'</span>

www.google.com

I suspect most of England is not paying much attention at the moment though.

Good timing by the government on that front. They’re nothing if not sly.

 

[Jack]

Pushback on the Tories plans does seem to be making headlines:

COVID-19: Tolerating high levels of COVID infections is both 'unethical and illogical', scientists warn

In a letter published in The Lancet, 122 scientists warned any strategy that tolerates high levels of infection is both "unethical and illogical".

www.google.com

Redirect Notice

Scientists accuse UK government of ignoring ‘long Covid’ threat

Medical experts say it could be most damaging consequence of ending lockdown restrictions

www.google.com

UK scientists caution that lifting of Covid rules is like building ‘variant factories’

Experts react with dismay to ‘frightening’ attitude of Sajid Javid towards removing protections

www.google.com

Scientists slam 'bonkers' government lockdown plans after Covid likened to flu

<span>The experts have broken ranks to lash out at 'frightening' Health Secretary as the Government gears up to lift restrictions on 'Freedom Day', with one branding the plans 'bonkers'</span>

www.google.com

I suspect most of England is not paying much attention at the moment though.

Everybody, including WHO, have said its bonkers. NS had a less than disguised pop at the Westminster fools, more than anything I've seen in the past albeit in parliamentary code.

We'll all suffer in one way or another.


Edit: The world used to laugh at Trump, the USA, Boris and us. They're only laughing at Boris and us now.

The Eton establishment must be squirming with embarrassment.

 

[Rocky]

Just got my second AZ at the Pyramids and it was deid up there. The lady doing my jag said they had loads of staff in but lots of folk not turning up for appointments. Although she also said that there had been a big queue at the vaccine bus at the Centre in Livingston so maybe folk are just going to drop ins instead of keeping scheduled appointments.

 

[bigmanandy]

In a letter published in The Lancet, 122 British scientists said the exponential growth of the virus "will likely continue until millions more are infected, leaving hundreds of thousands with long-term illness and disability".

They also said they are concerned the strategy "provides fertile ground for the emergence of vaccine-resistant variants".

 

[Greenmachine]

See if I hear another politician saying "This virus is not over"..!!

We know. We are not a country of 9 year old bairns !!

 

[Zab]

See if I hear another politician saying "This virus is not over"..!!

We know. We are not a country of 9 year old bairns !!

To be fair the behaviour of plenty would suggest otherwise!

 

[Doc Shrink]

To be fair the behaviour of plenty would suggest otherwise!

Social distancing is disappearing quickly, and mask wearing decreasing. A lot of those who do wear masks in the shopping centres here wear them in the ‘nose out’ position.
For a significant number the virus IS over.

 

[GORDONSMITH7]

Lickspittle Whitty.....

Editor-in-Chief of Lancet accuses CMO Whitty of ‘wilfully misrepresenting scientific opinion’ on lifting of safety measures (video)

Richard Horton’s remarkable accusation highlights that expert opinion against Tories’ headlong rush toward unvaccinated and unattainable ‘herd immunity’ The Editor-in-Chief …

skwawkbox.org

BIG G