Corona virus on its own thread.

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moathibby

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You have to end this apartheid vaccination scheme,what is the point in vaccinating the UK if some poor bugger in Myainmar or somewhere can't get their hands on the vaccine because they can't afford it? As long as the whole scheme is about big Pharma,and businessmen paying back handers to governments, as long as we don't have the properly funded public health systems all over the world, as long as we keep insisting restuaranteurs are really suffering in this pandemic when It's really the poor buggers that are making the meals, as long as we insist on teachers coming into work in unventilated classrooms, as long as we insist track and trace is run by the relative of a cabinet member instead of in the NHS and PCR and Lateral Flow companies are racking it in at Airports and hotels,and we are told 'we couldn't possibly afford to bring back the furlough scheme' then we are buggered.
 

Jack

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I don't think that sounds like a very coherent strategy. Restrictions in this country are only reactive. In medical interventions / medicines you're putting your faith in future discoveries. So what is the proactive activity beyond vaccines that will move us on from the pandemic?

I haven't heard anything convincing from politicians or scientists BTW so if we come up with an answer here, it could be big 😉
I think it can only be reactive given we don't how, where or when a pandemic will happen. Crystal ball type stuff.

For example. The UK/Scotland was recognised as having one of the best pandemic plans in the world on paper. OK the torys had ignored the plan and maybe surprisingly :9:had withdrawn funding over the years. But the biggest problem with covid was its a new type of virus and no-one knew how to tackle it. It was the wrong type of pandemic! Also plans can only go on for so long and then the authorities have to think on their feet.

Our plan had the UK government at the head. The Scottish Government plan fed into that. Our local governments, NHS, and other public bodies fed into that and so on.

If this pandemic has taught us one thing that's not a very good model. Pandemics don't respect borders. Governments around the world did their own thing and in my opinion that was a major failure.

The alternative though is someone like WHO or the UN or both need to lead and be properly funded to do so. That's not going to happen though so as it stands we're globally fucked for the next pandemic too.

Just my thoughts, as someone who helped prepare previous versions of the Scottish plan.
 

hibadelic

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I think it can only be reactive given we don't how, where or when a pandemic will happen. Crystal ball type stuff.

For example. The UK/Scotland was recognised as having one of the best pandemic plans in the world on paper. OK the torys had ignored the plan and maybe surprisingly :9:had withdrawn funding over the years. But the biggest problem with covid was its a new type of virus and no-one knew how to tackle it. It was the wrong type of pandemic! Also plans can only go on for so long and then the authorities have to think on their feet.

Our plan had the UK government at the head. The Scottish Government plan fed into that. Our local governments, NHS, and other public bodies fed into that and so on.

If this pandemic has taught us one thing that's not a very good model. Pandemics don't respect borders. Governments around the world did their own thing and in my opinion that was a major failure.

The alternative though is someone like WHO or the UN or both need to lead and be properly funded to do so. That's not going to happen though so as it stands we're globally fucked for the next pandemic too.

Just my thoughts, as someone who helped prepare previous versions of the Scottish plan.

So we don't have a solution, there:s currently no route out?
 

greencol

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So we don't have a solution, there:s currently no route out?
Not a straight line route, no.
Trial & error it is.
Man still has limitations I'm afraid.
Covid may join the many illnesses and ailments with no 'one shot' solution.
 

hibadelic

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Not a straight line route, no.
Trial & error it is.
Man still has limitations I'm afraid.
Covid may join the many illnesses and ailments with no 'one shot' solution.

This is the reality, I agree. We're waiting for the silver bullet of medicine or for the virus to naturally become more benign. It's not something I've heard from any politician though and it seems that the loonies actually understand it better than the more level headed amongst us. That's not aimed at you, greencol or anyone else on this thread

Clearly the loonies use it as a reason to disengage completely which is daft but when the reality is so different from the government line, you can see why trust is breaking down.
 

Davy

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No we weren't. The vaccine has never been the route oot. It's always been part of the solution.

No-one can predict what this evil wee fucker of a virus will do one week to the next never mind months, a year in the future.

Two things, which I've mentioned here before.

It's not just about people dying.​
If huge numbers of people are off sick or isolating society could crumble. The NHS, care homes, transport, food supply chains, electricity/gas/water systems, law and order etc. will fail to function as required. Its bad enough now with the collateral damage. I'd hate to think of what would happen if ...​


Some people definitely said we would be back to normal by Summer, but perhaps it was media and not goverment so I will give you that,

I also get that businesses are suffering from people being off either with covid or because they have been near someone who has. However apart from very small operations I have not seen a lot of evidence that the majority have to shut down. I work in care and although there have been challenges we have never had to see any care home shut because of no staff. Sometimes short staffed yes. Also big chains like McDonalds have never stopped operating and in fact they are under increasing pressures due to having delivery services now, their staff are hammering it on shifts. I done a couple of shifts with Deliveroo for someone and some cafes are positively booming with the extra trade, even though individual orders will make a bit less for them due to charges.
So whatever happens I do not see industry grinding to a halt. What should happen is we pay a decent wage to NHS/Care staff so they don't all swan off to the New World within two years of qualifying. (My sister, bro in law and nephew all done that)
 

Rocky

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It'll end one way or another, people and governments just need to make the best decisions in an imperfect world. Some of those decisions will be taken in bad faith, some will be taken with the best of intentions but end up having negative consequences.

I saw the other day that US military scientists started working on a vaccine against the original virus plus all possible future variants as soon as the pandemic started, and it went into full clinical trials recently. That could be a way to bring it all to an end.

If the future involves everybody in the world getting a vaccine booster every six months then that doesn't seem an enormous challenge to me, in comparison to the devastation the pandemic has caused. Sort out the patent situation and get global manufacturing capability built and it'll become business as usual. Who knows, maybe it'll be a start to developed nations taking more responsibility for supporting developing nations (I can dream...)
 

Jack

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Did anyone get a Christmas card from Nicola Sturgeon or was it only Mrs Jackie 😆

Stay safe!
 

bigmanandy

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So we don't have a solution, there:s currently no route out?
US was working on something to end Covid but again viruses mutate and would probaly work its way round it somehow.

As scientists have said we cant boost our way out of this, its just not sustainable. There will come a point we will have to learn to live with it.
 

joethehibby

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It'll end one way or another, people and governments just need to make the best decisions in an imperfect world. Some of those decisions will be taken in bad faith, some will be taken with the best of intentions but end up having negative consequences.

I saw the other day that US military scientists started working on a vaccine against the original virus plus all possible future variants as soon as the pandemic started, and it went into full clinical trials recently. That could be a way to bring it all to an end.

If the future involves everybody in the world getting a vaccine booster every six months then that doesn't seem an enormous challenge to me, in comparison to the devastation the pandemic has caused. Sort out the patent situation and get global manufacturing capability built and it'll become business as usual. Who knows, maybe it'll be a start to developed nations taking more responsibility for supporting developing nations (I can dream...)
👏👏👏
 

joethehibby

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What I don’t get is the virus will do this or do that by way of mutating etc . Does the virus have a brain like 🤷‍♂️
 

bigmanandy

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Did anyone get a Christmas card from Nicola Sturgeon or was it only Mrs Jackie 😆

Stay safe!
My auld man has his as a centre piece on his mantle piece.

Safe to say politics are banned around the dinner table on Christmas day, never hear the end of how great Nicola is :grinning-smiley-045:
 

GORDONSMITH7

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It'll end one way or another, people and governments just need to make the best decisions in an imperfect world. Some of those decisions will be taken in bad faith, some will be taken with the best of intentions but end up having negative consequences.

I saw the other day that US military scientists started working on a vaccine against the original virus plus all possible future variants as soon as the pandemic started, and it went into full clinical trials recently. That could be a way to bring it all to an end.

If the future involves everybody in the world getting a vaccine booster every six months then that doesn't seem an enormous challenge to me, in comparison to the devastation the pandemic has caused. Sort out the patent situation and get global manufacturing capability built and it'll become business as usual. Who knows, maybe it'll be a start to developed nations taking more responsibility for supporting developing nations (I can dream...)
''If the future involves everybody in the world getting a vaccine booster every six months then that doesn't seem an enormous challenge to me.''
Oh really O'Reilly.The majority of the Worlds population have not yet been vaccinated against the first strain, never mind ,the 2nd or 3rd.
Please explain your optimism in the Governments of the richest countries and Big Pharm capitalists to make that happen amigo.I would hope that to happen too but my magic beans will stay in my pocket.

BIG G
 

joethehibby

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My auld man has his as a centre piece on his mantle piece.

Safe to say politics are banned around the dinner table on Christmas day, never hear the end of how great Nicola is :grinning-smiley-045:
Personally think she’s done a good job under the circumstances 👍
 

emerald green

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Like someone else said the german market has thousands at it as well as many other events yet they pick on football. Sid all these people travel in their own car? I doubt it
Think people dont understand 'cumulative'.

Football isnt being picked on.

(not directed at you davy), but the hysteria from grown adults around this is something to behold.
 

Rocky

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''If the future involves everybody in the world getting a vaccine booster every six months then that doesn't seem an enormous challenge to me.''
Oh really O'Reilly.The majority of the Worlds population have not yet been vaccinated against the first strain, never mind ,the 2nd or 3rd.
Please explain your optimism in the Governments of the richest countries and Big Pharm capitalists to make that happen amigo.I would hope that to happen too but my magic beans will stay in my pocket.

BIG G
You missed out a fairly key part of that sentence. Anyway, I was talking about the logistics, not the political will. And I specifically mentioned the patent issue.

Vaccines cost what, two dollars per dose to produce? Take double that to cover supply chain costs as well. Two doses per year x 7 billion people is about 28 billion dollars. The UK alone spunked more than that on dodgy contracts to politicians' mates.
 

GORDONSMITH7

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I kept the salient paragraph that wishful unrealistic thinking epitomizes Rocky.Back of fag packet arithmatic unfortunately ill never make it happen.

BIG G
 

joethehibby

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So in the last 14 days ,daily cases in Scotland have risen from 4087 to 7076 .
Meanwhile the number of people in fife hospitals has dropped from 42 to 26 .
Early days but promising , mon the vaccine 👏👍
 

eckmf

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A bad flu season kills around 30,000. Once we get beyond Covid as a pandemic do we implement restrictions to counter a bad flu season?
I’ve heard this mentioned once or twice over the last few years but no matter how much I Google and search, I cannot find these figures stated, can you show me them please, thanks.
 
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