New Alex Salmond Party

[hibadelic]

Good. If you've got a penis you're a man. A vagina then you're a woman.

That's quite extreme, K. Perhaps it is a vote winner.

I'm of the opinion that trans people should be allowed to live as they see fit and we should accept them as whatever they want to be. I can't see any benefit to denying someone to live their life as the opposite sex if they want to. Live and let live I reckon.

At the same time, there's a pragmatism needed by all sides in that you can't physically change someone from one sex to another. For that reason, I'm uneasy about trans women winning athletics medals and there are various, usually hypothetical (so fairly irrelevant) circumstances where I feel that way too.

I also find the trans rights crowd a pretty awful bunch who'll close down discussions rather than face certain realities of their arguments. I'm pro trans rights, but would no-doubt be described as a TERF since I don't subscribe to their black or white worldview.

 

[HaarlemShuffler]

Good. If you've got a penis you're a man. A vagina then you're a woman.

Like Caster Semanya?

 

[Murky]

That's quite extreme, K. Perhaps it is a vote winner.

I'm of the opinion that trans people should be allowed to live as they see fit and we should accept them as whatever they want to be. I can't see any benefit to denying someone to live their life as the opposite sex if they want to. Live and let live I reckon.

At the same time, there's a pragmatism needed by all sides in that you can't physically change someone from one sex to another. For that reason, I'm uneasy about trans women winning athletics medals and there are various, usually hypothetical (so fairly irrelevant) circumstances where I feel that way too.

I also find the trans rights crowd a pretty awful bunch who'll close down discussions rather than face certain realities of their arguments. I'm pro trans rights, but would no-doubt be described as a TERF since I don't subscribe to their black or white worldview.

It probably isn't a huge vote winner because the vast majority of the public take no interest in politics so are unaware of the erosion of women's rights the SNP seem to be effecting.

Your comments above are pretty much in line with mine and probably also the vast majority of people who are deemed to be 'anti trans'. Your last paragraph is a big reason why I have become so disenfranchised with the SNP. The amount of abuse that Joanna Cherry has received about her views on women's rights from the trans activists, some of whom are actual members of her own party is disgusting. The fact that nobody from the SNP leadership ever stepped in and stood up for her is saddening.

Back to the main point of the thread though, Alex Salmond may be odious or creepy but he has never been found guilty of any offences against women, either by parliamentary or criminal investigations. I am not saying he's a saint but by the same token I don't think he's a sleazy sex pest either.

The fact that the Women's Convener from the SNP NEC decided to quit the SNP and join Alba is telling. A woman has decided that women's rights stand a better chance within a party run by a 'sex pest' than by one run by a woman.

As mentioned in my first paragraph I am not sure how much of a vote winner all this will be but I do know one thing, it is secondary to the ultimate goal which should be independence and I genuinely believe that unless there are Alba MSPs in the next parliament keeping the pressure on the SNP then we won't see independence within the next decade.

Remember when voting Alba you aren't voting for Alex Salmond. You are voting for a party that will look to advance the cause of independence and will take up the seats of (and remove) the likes of Murdo Fraser, Annie Wells and Adam Tomkins.

 

[NGP]

I said in an earlier post that this election will be all about Indy / Union and this thread highlights that.
I'm all for a referendum and if it happens, I will look past the personalities and parties to vote for the bigger picture, not the here and now. (I was like a broken record in 2014, saying "it's not about the SNP or Salmond, look beyond that!").

But - this is an election, we are voting for a Govt to run the country for the next 5 years and I just can't 'hold my nose' and vote for a party that is led by Salmond.

 

[Purple & Green]

The world is well and truly fucked. When respected guys like yourself, are prepared to back an "inappropriate " individual .
We , as a nation , were within touching distance of indy. Now this big creepy gunt woman worrier , has come along and split us. Its truly sad.
When it was announced that he was starting a new party, I laughed and thought , who is going to vote for that sleazy bastard. I'm not laughing now. I prepare myself to be ruled , by Westminster tories, both blue and red , for the rest of my life. Nae wonder I drink.

I’m not sure I qualify as respected!

the most simple central point for me is that I have two votes next month.

Ill vote snp with the first one, and it will probably elect Stewart McMillan, nice guy, picked up the phone to me when I sent him a long email rant.

ive got a second vote, and if I vote snp it will virtually certainly not elect an snp list Msp. So along come alba, and in simple terms if they get 6% of the vote they will get an msp in each region. If they get 12% of the vote they will get 2 msps in each region. That would be 14 msps that are Indy focussed. Greens aren’t for me, a bit like Andy Wightman, but stars aligning here would be Greens getting 12% of the list vote too, giving them 14 msps too.

these gains would be overwhelmingly at the expense of the London based parties.

For me is that I don’t believe Sturgeon will deliver independence - we’re waiting for a point in time/support/mandate that will never happen. Strategically I don’t believe she is up to the task, and weve had promises snd rhetoric before. I’m coming to the view that independence won’t happen in my lifetime, and I’m 50.

So I’ll be voting Alba in the hope that more Indy focussed msps will prove me wrong.

hope I’m wrong on Sturgeon fwiw

 

[Purple & Green]

https://archive.ph/tv0Qu

John Curtice in today’s times

 

[1875]

https://archive.ph/tv0Qu

John Curtice in today’s times

Reading that, it really is clearly all about Salmond here.

I wonder where Margo would sit on this one? Has Jim Sillars joined Alba?

 

[Greenmachine]

The Proclaimers announce they are backing Alba party.

 

[Purple & Green]

Reading that, it really is clearly all about Salmond here.

I wonder where Margo would sit on this one? Has Jim Sillars joined Alba?

I thought the article was a bit unhelpful around Salmond, there's a lot more to Alba than just him.

Sillars, I dont think will come out for anyone, he's 83 and done his stint. It's criminal really that he never stood in the Scottish Parliament elections, he would have had so much to offer. To be fair I don't think Margo would have compromised her independence on the er independence movement, so possibly wouldn't have aligned even if she was sympathetic to the idea as she put the template in place for list votes.

Interesting though that their "son-in-law" and his twin have come out for Alba though.

 

[GORDONSMITH7]

First Josh ' One of our own' Taylor congratulated the Currant Buns on their splendid League win now the specky Hibs Heroes turn their backs on the SNP they have followed since bairns, for Alba.
This is enough to bring some to tears.


BIG G

 

[Jack]

I've never been a card carrying member of any political party and have no great desire for that to change.

There's a couple of things though that I'm struggling to get my head round.

At the moment we know virtually nothing about Alba. So little they're not even in the running for my second vote!

How can someone politically motivated enough to join a party or be an influencer chuck that in and join another when the policies of that party are so unclear?

My opinion is of course tainted by my previously discussed dislike of Salmond

 

[Greenmachine]

I've never been a card carrying member of any political party and have no great desire for that to change.

There's a couple of things though that I'm struggling to get my head round.

At the moment we know virtually nothing about Alba. So little they're not even in the running for my second vote!

How can someone politically motivated enough to join a party or be an influencer chuck that in and join another when the policies of that party are so unclear?

My opinion is of course tainted by my previously discussed dislike of Salmond

It would appear from what I can make out that within the SNP and Yes movement you are either part of the cult of Nicola or the cult of Alex. People who want independence seem to me to be making polarised decisions based on the personalities of both.

 

[Purple & Green]

It would appear from what I can make out that within the SNP and Yes movement you are either part of the cult of Nicola or the cult of Alex. People who want independence seem to me to be making polarised decisions based on the personalities of both.

I think you’re spot on that that Salmond snd Sturgeon devotees border on cultish. I’m part of neither cult, myself, I think the quicker both are out of the picture the better.

 

[hibadelic]

It would appear from what I can make out that within the SNP and Yes movement you are either part of the cult of Nicola or the cult of Alex. People who want independence seem to me to be making polarised decisions based on the personalities of both.

A bit simplistic that IMO. I'd argue most people who want independence care more about getting independence than either leader.

 

[greencol]

A bit simplistic that IMO. I'd argue most people who want independence care more about getting independence than either leader.

That's how it is for me.
I've voted for SNP( independence) since 1974.
Before AS , and long before NS.
Independence is all that matters to me.

 

[Murky]

It would appear from what I can make out that within the SNP and Yes movement you are either part of the cult of Nicola or the cult of Alex. People who want independence seem to me to be making polarised decisions based on the personalities of both.

I'm not a member of any cult.

Many like me who have voted SNP for years have become dispirited by their lack of focus on independence, instead pushing on with other polarising policies. Having said that, as leader of the SNP Nicola Sturgeon has to to some of the flak for that.

Before the other 'cult leader' formed his party, many of these dispirited SNP voters were already planning to vote for one of the new independence focused parties, AFI or ISP. Since the formation of Alba those 2 parties decided to stand their candidates down in the forthcoming election on the basis of "country before party" (their words).

This leaves Alba as the only SNP alternative who have independence as their main priority. I know many here are thinking of giving the Greens their second vote but personally I'm not all that convinced of their independence credentials. I think it's been convenient for them to be deemed to be the other Yes party. Patrick Harvie is on record as having said that independence isn't a priority.

I'm going to be giving my second vote to Alba, not because Alex Salmond is the party leader but because I believe an independent Scotland and the more independence minded MSPs in Parliament the better. Especially ones who have independence at the top of their list of priorities.

 

[Canon Hannan]

It would appear from what I can make out that within the SNP and Yes movement you are either part of the cult of Nicola or the cult of Alex. People who want independence seem to me to be making polarised decisions based on the personalities of both.

Lot of that is just social media I think there are also a lot like me that are neither and just want independence and then we can vote for a party/leader that suits.

 

[southfieldhibby]

I think you’re spot on that that Salmond snd Sturgeon devotees border on cultish. I’m part of neither cult, myself, I think the quicker both are out of the picture the better.

Didn't you join ALBA though? If you didn't join simply because you favour Salmond's style of politiking over Sturgeon, I'm not sure why you would have done that? Can't be policy based, as far as I can tell they have none outwith independence.

And you could have voted for them without joining their cult.

 

[Jack]

It would appear from what I can make out that within the SNP and Yes movement you are either part of the cult of Nicola or the cult of Alex. People who want independence seem to me to be making polarised decisions based on the personalities of both.

I don't see the cult thing to be honest although it seems to be quite a common term used by some folk.

Working in the Scottish Government when the SNP swept to power it was like night and day compared to working with previous politicians. Gone was a sort of confrontational implementation of policy and in came a collaborative style. That swung my vote to the SNP.

As for the two leaders one I found a pleasure to work with!

 

[tayside hibee]

If AS becomes prominent in politics again, the MSM would jump all over him . He wouldn’t stand a chance. He is being used by them to split the Indy vote, he is being played like a fiddle.
The guys a fckin creep, he’s finished , the only winners here are your rule Britannia , Union Jack waving , Brexit bams.

 

[Plasticman]

Calling something a cult is utilising the term to somehow downgrade and downplay the legitimacy of a set of beliefs - Corbyn got it all the time too. Just because someone broadly supports the aims of a person, a party leader, be it Sturgeon, Salmond, even Johnson, Farage or the aforementioned Corbyn that doesnt make them the member of a cult. Words like cult are being used to divide people.

 

[Purple & Green]

Didn't you join ALBA though? If you didn't join simply because you favour Salmond's style of politiking over Sturgeon, I'm not sure why you would have done that? Can't be policy based, as far as I can tell they have none outwith independence.

And you could have voted for them without joining their cult.

That's a fair point M, I was going to drift out of membership of a political party membership when my snp membership expired. I took a punt on Alba, not because I favour his style, but because the people getting involved are serious and can make an impact, whereas the ISP and AFI were going to be slow burners.

I've long thought a list non snp party would be a good option, so when one came along six weeks before an election I was happy to give them my support. The way I look on it, its a six week gamble, and we'll see where it lands from there. I could have done it without joining I suppose, that's a reasonable observation.

To go back to something else; since Margo's untimely death I've not really had a home for my list vote. I've two votes, my second vote is wasted on the snp and the greens just don't appeal to me. So someone came along with a vision that can make a difference and make my vote count.

I want to see an independent Scotland, and I still care enough about that to stay involved. I find both Sturgeon and Salmond unpleasant on a personal level, but I think Salmond is the better strategist. Salmond to me, seems to be on the receiving end of a lot of scores being settled by people he's upset or crossed in the past - and I'm not referring to the allegations of impropriety with that.

There are so many facets to this fracture of the snp, to an extent I don't care less, I just want indy.

 

[Purple & Green]

Calling something a cult is utilising the term to somehow downgrade and downplay the legitimacy of a set of beliefs - Corbyn got it all the time too. Just because someone broadly supports the aims of a person, a party leader, be it Sturgeon, Salmond, even Johnson, Farage or the aforementioned Corbyn that doesnt make them the member of a cult. Words like cult are being used to divide people.

The snp is so divided, polarized, that maybe cult makes sense in the description you've used?

 

[greencol]

If AS becomes prominent in politics again, the MSM would jump all over him . He wouldn’t stand a chance. He is being used by them to split the Indy vote, he is being played like a fiddle.
The guys a fckin creep, he’s finished , the only winners here are your rule Britannia , Union Jack waving , Brexit bams.

I dont think AS is for jumping on by anyone.
Regardless of your personal opinion of him , he's a big name in politics.
Dont take him for a mug.

 

[Purple & Green]

If AS becomes prominent in politics again, the MSM would jump all over him . He wouldn’t stand a chance. He is being used by them to split the Indy vote, he is being played like a fiddle.
The guys a fckin creep, he’s finished , the only winners here are your rule Britannia , Union Jack waving , Brexit bams.

have you followed the duff and phelps case at all? It’s not entirely similar, but there are parallels with the Salmond case.

He’s “won” 2/2 in the courts, and if he’s going after the likes of Leslie Evans and the daily Record leaker fir damages on the back of malicious actions I think he’ll make it 3/3. The people he’ll put on oath answering his questions will be a whole new angle to what’s gone on.

i think by the final week of this campaign the friendly fire from the snp will have stopped, and there’s where most of the attacks on Salmond have come from.

 

[Purple & Green]

I don't see the cult thing to be honest although it seems to be quite a common term used by some folk.

Working in the Scottish Government when the SNP swept to power it was like night and day compared to working with previous politicians. Gone was a sort of confrontational implementation of policy and in came a collaborative style. That swung my vote to the SNP.

As for the two leaders one I found a pleasure to work with!

That's an interesting angle, it would be helpful if you could elaborate.

There's some people that I've found intensely dislikable on a personal level, but actually really good at their job or getting progress or getting people to do what they are supposed to do.

Conversely I've found really likeable people who just don't get things done.

 

[Purple & Green]

A lot of people struggle with how the second vote works, an interesting observation, which probably highlights the disparity.

In a region where the snp wins 9 constituency seats, effectively means that a vote for alba on the list is worth the same as 10 votes for the snp. That holds true for the greens as well as long as they win no constituency seats.

 

[southfieldhibby]

That's a fair point M, I was going to drift out of membership of a political party membership when my snp membership expired. I took a punt on Alba, not because I favour his style, but because the people getting involved are serious and can make an impact, whereas the ISP and AFI were going to be slow burners.

I've long thought a list non snp party would be a good option, so when one came along six weeks before an election I was happy to give them my support. The way I look on it, its a six week gamble, and we'll see where it lands from there. I could have done it without joining I suppose, that's a reasonable observation.

To go back to something else; since Margo's untimely death I've not really had a home for my list vote. I've two votes, my second vote is wasted on the snp and the greens just don't appeal to me. So someone came along with a vision that can make a difference and make my vote count.

I want to see an independent Scotland, and I still care enough about that to stay involved. I find both Sturgeon and Salmond unpleasant on a personal level, but I think Salmond is the better strategist. Salmond to me, seems to be on the receiving end of a lot of scores being settled by people he's upset or crossed in the past - and I'm not referring to the allegations of impropriety with that.

There are so many facets to this fracture of the snp, to an extent I don't care less, I just want indy.

Fair enough man. I've always hoped for Common Weal or Jimmy Reid Foundation to stand on the list.

I personally think Salmond is a traditional SNP man ( by that meaning I mean the tartan tory type who is a monarchist) whereas Sturgeon is ( or at least was) more left leaning, I would like to think she still is. She's not ( or wasn't) a supporter of the monarchy to draw another example with AS.

Alex Salmond for me is tainted. He was found not guilty, but I just can't accept that there's no smoke without at least the embers of a fire, and that's not something I will endorse. Disappointing that the Procs have also hitched to his ( no manifesto) wagon too.

 

[Smurf]

Fair enough man. I've always hoped for Common Weal or Jimmy Reid Foundation to stand on the list.

I personally think Salmond is a traditional SNP man ( by that meaning I mean the tartan tory type who is a monarchist) whereas Sturgeon is ( or at least was) more left leaning, I would like to think she still is. She's not ( or wasn't) a supporter of the monarchy to draw another example with AS.

Alex Salmond for me is tainted. He was found not guilty, but I just can't accept that there's no smoke without at least the embers of a fire, and that's not something I will endorse. Disappointing that the Procs have also hitched to his ( no manifesto) wagon too.

You think Sturgeon is more left leaning than Salmond? I think Salmond is much more to the left. And I actually thought that was the general consensus.

I think Sturgeon is quite New Labour. Salmond more John Smith Labour.

 

[southfieldhibby]

You think Sturgeon is more left leaning than Salmond? I think Salmond is much more to the left. And I actually thought that was the general consensus.

I think Sturgeon is quite New Labour. Salmond more John Smith Labour.

I suppose there's a rizla between them, but aye, I think Sturgeon is more a left leaning republican who was in CND before she was in The SNP over the RBS economic advisor royalist Salmond who cosied up to Trump before realising most folk in Scotland consider him to be a *&*^.

 

[PILTONSTANY]

I massively want Indy but do Alba have any policies that would make me vote for them?

My Daughter is doing an apprenticeship,the Greens have pushed for free bus travel for U22s so she’ll directly benefit from that.

Can’t say I agree with everything the SNP or Greens do/want to happen but no party is ever going to make you totally happy so for me it’s a pretty easy decision to make tbh.

 

[shankssaysno]

Salmond failed in his attempt , no longer trust him at all but it will suit his ego regarding his relevance to politics he is finished , i just hope people who want independence see through his divisive party . Westminster will be pleased lets watch the Scot's implode again. Together we conquer divided we fail.

 

[Jack]

That's an interesting angle, it would be helpful if you could elaborate.

There's some people that I've found intensely dislikable on a personal level, but actually really good at their job or getting progress or getting people to do what they are supposed to do.

Conversely I've found really likeable people who just don't get things done.

Do you mean implementing policy?

I'll try and be concise.

The party comes in with a manifesto and then it's picked apart into individual policies with civil servants.

Labour and Labour/Libdems politicians would then dictate how these policies would be implemented. This is what we want to happen and this is how it will be done. The civil service was a kind of police service force just making sure it was done. A lot of policies failed because there was no buy in from those at the coal face.

The SNP (with civil servants) held meetings with the professionals/people who were to be implementing their policies. This is what we want to happen we want you lot (cs and p/p) to come back to us with a plan of how it can be implemented.

 

[Murky]

Reading that, it really is clearly all about Salmond here.

I wonder where Margo would sit on this one? Has Jim Sillars joined Alba?

I don't know if he has joined but according to the following article he is going to be voting for them

TWO OUTSTANDING REASONS TO VOTE ALBA

 

[Purple & Green]

I thought the article was a bit unhelpful around Salmond, there's a lot more to Alba than just him.

Sillars, I dont think will come out for anyone, he's 83 and done his stint. It's criminal really that he never stood in the Scottish Parliament elections, he would have had so much to offer. To be fair I don't think Margo would have compromised her independence on the er independence movement, so possibly wouldn't have aligned even if she was sympathetic to the idea as she put the template in place for list votes.

Interesting though that their "son-in-law" and his twin have come out for Alba though.

 

[southfieldhibby]

Saw that tweet earlier from farquarson and thought it was in pretty poor taste. He’s one of those know it all’s like Hugo rifkind or Alex massie, can make good points but in a snide way

 

[moathibby]

Good. If you've got a penis you're a man. A vagina then you're a woman.

And if you're born with both?

 

[moathibby]

That's quite extreme, K. Perhaps it is a vote winner.

I'm of the opinion that trans people should be allowed to live as they see fit and we should accept them as whatever they want to be. I can't see any benefit to denying someone to live their life as the opposite sex if they want to. Live and let live I reckon.

At the same time, there's a pragmatism needed by all sides in that you can't physically change someone from one sex to another. For that reason, I'm uneasy about trans women winning athletics medals and there are various, usually hypothetical (so fairly irrelevant) circumstances where I feel that way too.

I also find the trans rights crowd a pretty awful bunch who'll close down discussions rather than face certain realities of their arguments. I'm pro trans rights, but would no-doubt be described as a TERF since I don't subscribe to their black or white worldview.

 

[moathibby]

Casta Semenya was born with both sets of genitals.She had to decide whether to be a man or a woman.

 

[Purple & Green]

Casta Semenya was born with both sets of genitals.She had to decide whether to be a man or a woman.

I’m maybe being really ignorant here, but she’s not trans is she?